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General MSTS related discussion that doesn't really fit into any of the other specific forums.

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nelson
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Post by nelson »

[quote] Same here. Only my lack of posting of late is down to the brittle attitudes of some on the boards, [quote]

This kind of thing can happen when a "Newbie" asks what to him is a sensible question or plea for help and he gets answers from bored stiff "Well Established" ( I know it all 'cos I've been on the forums for years and I can't be bothered with new-comers ) such as " I haven't got a clue :)"
I'm all for humour, which I was pulled up about not so long ago :( but that is the kind of attitude which will put new-comers off and inevitably this forum will die off through lack of interest.

Put's his feet up and feels much, much better.
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Post by thenudehamster »

Hmmm.

I have to admit to being guilty on occasion of the 'Oh Lord, not another stupid newbie who hasn't got the brains to search' syndrome, but I do try to be reasonable in my responses to the glaringly dumb. Like most people I'm only human and I have off-days too, and when the seemingly stupid catches me on one of those, I strike first and think three days later. For that I apologise.

Almost everything I've learned about MSTS, I learned here, and I feel I owe it to those who taught me, to 'pay it forward' to the next generation - I just wish the next generation knew how to learn sometimes instead of having everything spoonfed to them.

There's still plenty happening in MSTS; just not all of it is happening here. Some of the European sites are still showing new content (though struggling for cash) as are the US and Australian ones - and yes I'm guilty of not supporting the Aussies too - I've had the Footscray-Ballarat line in the downloads folder for nearly a year; I really must install and run it...

and I'd love to come to exhibitions all over the country, meet everyone and chat, but it's one heck of a day trip from the Great Lakes to the Lake District...
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nelson
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Post by nelson »

That was not a rebuke to anyone in particular, Barry, you've been very helpful to me, as have others, I was just highlighting some of the problems newcomers are sometimes faced with. I've done searches but things I want to learn can be a bit obscure , such as looping horn sounds etc, and obviously I don't expect everyone to be savvy in that department but also if they can't offer any help at all I don't see why they have to say things like " I haven't got a clue ". There's humour and there's down-right piss-taking. Or maybe I'm just a bad-tempered old git?
Yes I found the tutorial on Steam4me.au, it was very helpful.
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Post by kevarc »

I think it is just a post holidays slowdown. It happens. Plus with MSTS really becoming dated, it makes it hard. I really am looking forward to TMTS. I think that all will be surprised on how well it will be. I think with Activision getting ahold of the "masters" and making new copies, there is a chance for a revival of sorts.

But a lot of the good folks have been getting involved in payware. That is true of myself also. But I still fool around in MSTS. Esp now that I made it all the way through Call of Duty and its expansion pack. Between MSTS and Rome:Total War, I have pretty much set how I will divide my time.
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Post by NeutronIC »

Speaking from my perspective, looking at what's happening in terms of interest in the site I am quite confident that the forums and uploads do not in any way represent the actual interest in the product.

Subscriber numbers are on the up, the volume of CD orders at the moment is staggering.

Put it in to perspective that the forums have about 4,000 people registered and the site has about 60,000 people registered, so it's only a small percentage - assuming all 4,000 people are still active and I seriously doubt that.

Speaking open, freely and frankly, and probably in a manner where i'll get a moderation request on my own post :) - the drop in interest of the forums is frankly many of your own collective faults. I have constantly been frustrated and disappointed at the inability of many people to tolerate each other and / or work within the soft limits of the community. The last year or two especially has seen the forums pulled this way and that to where now the same people that demanded things be rectified by banning this, stopping that, encouraging the other now complain there are also too many rules.

I never wanted the cessation of commercial discussion on the forums, I had always wanted the forums to promote discussion of all areas remotely (or even closely, occasionally at least :) )related to the hobby and yet the mob mentality on the forums makes that totally impossible. I can't even begin to count how many "well, if matt doesn't sort this out that'll be the end of it" type posts or emails I've seen or received. As a result, I've tried to mediate between people and bring some semblence of order and the result is that we can now comfortably discuss very little without feeling we're going to get jumped on, stepped on or moderated. Hardly a relaxing place to be.

I rarely use the forums myself other than to quickly scoot through them periodically, help out some beginners, sort out any conspiracy theories in site-admin and then back to the real world of just running the main site.

Some of the backbiting in and between various groups, the grumbling and mumbling going on in the background, emails to me describing how "a bunch of us are really disappointed in this or that on the site" referring usually to attitudes of other users etc is just completely disheartening.

I started this site because I have a love for trains, even if I don't have a great deal of knowledge about them. I started it because I also feel I am in a good position to put the time, effort and skill in to setting it all up and running it. I started it because I felt it would continue the effect of Tim's site and grow the organised community, provide a central point of reference for everyone to find out rather than lots of disparate locations - that part of things has worked superbly, the number and volume of new users joining the site is fantastic and every time we go to a model railway exhibition most of the people that are there, even if they've seen us before, are still exclaiming about how impressive it all looks.

Don't let the state of the forums make you think for one moment that things are quieting down in Train Simulator. The fact of the matter is that the forums do not represent this, and will not represent this until the people who use the forums can learn to relax, chill out and learn to get along with each other without resorting to games. I can't stand adult politics or playground politics and we've had both in abundance.

Again I re-iterate I am not tarring everyone on the forums with the same brush, for the most part there are just a small number of loud people.

Kevin makes a good point that many of the 'oldies' have moved to payware, which was not surprising and indeed we should be grateful it took as long as it did to happen. Some of them do still contribute work, though part of the problem is that many of them were prolific posters on the forums and have now been chased away.

Ah well, maybe i'm just depressed after reading those 5 pages.

Matt.
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Post by qzdcg8 »

Good points Matt - I agree entirely - I've been around since Day 1 (well Day 34 if you count 5th October 2001 as Day 1) and I'm still here and not going anywhere!
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Post by jp4712 »

NeutronIC wrote: Subscriber numbers are on the up, the volume of CD orders at the moment is staggering.
Well, someone has to keep Ebay supplied! ;)
NeutronIC wrote:Ah well, maybe i'm just depressed after reading those 5 pages.

Matt.
Don't be - I think this thread has shown (a) that people can still, if they make the effort, be polite to each other even when not holding exactly the same point of view; (b) that the forum is far from dying a death; and (c) that clearly, you did not consume sufficient quantities of Guinness while in Dublin. :drinking:

Best wishes

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Post by greenknight »

I's still here, but since the New Year it's been headless chicken mode so I haven't had much time to mooch around the forums as there's been too much work to do!! Looking forward to the release of TMTS tho'

GK

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Post by ccsdc »

Well said Matt.

I think a lot of the perception comes from the 24 hour a day, I need it yesterday sort of society we now live in - if there are no new uploads for 2 days or the forums go a bit quiet then something is clearly wrong in some peoples minds.

Maybe there is another explanation - the people that produce the quality uploads are working away getting their products as perfect as possible, and they have nothing much new to say on the forums unless a specific question is asked of them - thats the category I fall into anyway.

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Post by bigvern »

Have to agree with that - what's more productive, spending an hour on the laptop working on a new route or maybe working up a review on a new add-on, or an hour on here woffling on?

Besides, if MSTS is quiet then so is the rest of the gaming world. Just bought the latest PC Gamer and seems thinner again this month. Not much reviewed that is of interest and not much (non rail related) in the pipeline either. If you go in Game etc. most of the shelf space is occupied by budget titles or "Restaurant Tycoon"/Special Forces combat type clone games. Where are the quality new flight sims and space sims that used to be eagerly awaited at least a couple of times a year? Nothing... So if MSTS is in decline then that applies equally to videogaming in general!
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Post by johndibben »

Agree with Matt except that I don't believe anyone has been chased away. It's not possible without being very conspicuous and getting banned. It's a shame some have been banned. Never called for anyone to be banned permanently. Assume people will leave of their own accord if they don't like the forums.

Agree with Vern except that possibly waffling on here and certainly reading posts on in here keeps people like him in contact with some semblance of the 'real' trainsim world. The alternative breeds alienation and limited perspective and thought which, in my experience, works against the 'community' atmosphere. That, in a nutshell, is my response to the concern expressed in this thread.
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Post by welshdragon »

I must admit that I don't get involved in a lot of the topics on the Forum's but that's because I am out of my depth in some of the topics being discussed.

On the other hand if ever I have had a problem I know where to get the answer and I've never been let down yet.

If there is a question asked that I have experienced myself I do try and help out by posting a reply and I visit the Forums nearly every day to see if anything new has been posted and like this topic I read any new comments that have been added.

I for one would be lost without the help available here.

Regards

Alan
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Post by martinhodgson »

If this place closed we'd have to go to T-S.com - and while their forum is helpful, it hasn't got anything like the same 'community spirit'
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Post by terrycunliffe »

Having in the past to constantly scan the forums with Mods hat on for possible potential Flamers and then switch between RE, Magic, OS and Cab-ride avi's as well as trying to learn TSM :o was proving rather tiresome to say the least. (I do have a family and work life to consider outside MSTS)
The fact that the forums are thankfully much more civil nowadays means that I can again concentrate more on route building and less on Moderation issues... So I'm happy :lol:
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Post by petermakosch »

I'm a loud person! BOOOM - WOOO!! :P

Matt, you're doing a great job with the site, it is much better than I could do, and I am sure many people will be of the same opinion. If the people choose to go, then it will leave the others who are people I certainly look up to. Many long standing, or "famous" members will stick it out, and let those middle members who have anounced a couple of pieces of work, said they're leaving twice already, and have been involved in five fire threads leave. YES, the forum might be a quieter place, but then I should think things will move to much MUCH more quality discussions (not that there isnt any now), but, i dong really know what I am trying to say, but, I am sure someone will know what i am getting at :S *tried to think of an example forum* *fails - gets back to updating MidEast* <-- oops? :P

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