Passenger coach type designators

JADsHome · Post by **JADsHome** » Tue Oct 26, 2004 2:35 pm

Hello, All, I feel like I am on a roll asking a question a day on the forums lately

Anyway I have to plead ignorance to ask my latest question - is there a document or web page anyone can point me to which contains all of the passenger coach types - ie. BSO, TSO, FO, BFK, etc. and what they mean ? Please !!!

JADsHome · Post by **JADsHome** » Tue Oct 26, 2004 2:39 pm

Isn't that always the way - you search for a few hours then as soon as you put a request on somewhere you find something !!!

Anyway incase there is anyone else who as I didn't know them here they all appear to be...

http://www.abrail.co.uk/coach_codes.htm

jeastmond · Post by **jeastmond** » Thu Oct 28, 2004 6:07 pm

JADsHome wrote:Isn't that always the way - you search for a few hours then as soon as you put a request on somewhere you find something !!!

Anyway incase there is anyone else who as I didn't know them here they all appear to be...

http://www.abrail.co.uk/coach_codes.htm

But beware... the codes, such as TCK, which are given the description '..... with Kitchen' are wrong. The 'K' in this case indicated a corridor vehicle with lavatory, 'L' being the open equivalent. 'K' in conjunction with a code containing 'R', as in TRFK, indicates Kitchen (confused? you will be).

Other codes in error are those containing 'H', as in TCH, this indicates a semi-open/semi-compartment (not to be confused with semi-open, which is a vehicle with more then one saloon) vehicle with lavatory, not '.... with handbrake'. An exception to the rule was the designation of the outside vehicles in the Class 488 GatEx sets, where the 'H' did indeed indicate 'handbrake'!

thenudehamster · Post by **thenudehamster** » Thu Oct 28, 2004 6:27 pm

I remember the basics of pre-TOPS coaches as:

F=First
C=Composite
K=Corridor
B=Brake
T=Tourist
S=Second
O=Open
R=Restaurant

(there were others, just can't remember off the top of my head)
then there were supplements in brackets, like

(T)=Toilet
(K)=Kitchen
(MB)=Miniature Buffet

and all you did was read the combination, so that, for instance a TSO(T) was a Tourist Second Open with Toilet.
Then they stopped using brackets - which confused things a bit - and invented TOPS which totally screwed it for me...

ianmacmillan · Post by **ianmacmillan** » Thu Oct 28, 2004 8:18 pm

wooops.

TSO(T) is a Tourist second open with space for a catering trolley.

Tourist implies 4 a side seating. eg 64seats in a Mk1 TSO.
a 3 aside second would be a SO. These were mainly used as restuarant cars and some were designated RSO.

The list misses out earlier types such as the non corridor BS. S, F and C.
Also pre 1956 Third class such as the BTK.

Warship · Post by **Warship** » Thu Oct 28, 2004 11:03 pm

I've waited years for someone to fully explain these codes .....
And in four minutes I'm more confused than I was four decades ago

Can anyone give a definative answer to the orignal question?

Greg

thenudehamster · Post by **thenudehamster** » Fri Oct 29, 2004 1:40 am

ianmacmillan wrote:wooops.

TSO(T) is a Tourist second open with space for a catering trolley.

Tourist implies 4 a side seating. eg 64seats in a Mk1 TSO.
a 3 aside second would be a SO. These were mainly used as restuarant cars and some were designated RSO.

The list misses out earlier types such as the non corridor BS. S, F and C.
Also pre 1956 Third class such as the BTK.

Well, I didn't do bad - I was working off the top of my head, and the list wasn't meant to be comprehensive, more an indication of how the codes can be broken down...

JADsHome · Post by **JADsHome** » Fri Oct 29, 2004 3:20 pm

Thanks for all your replies - I downloaded the excellent mk2 stock off here and needed to build a consist but wasn't sure what needed to go where - I guess a subset at a tangent of the question is also is there a 'standard' consist list anywhere or is it a case of chuck it together and if it works use it ?

thenudehamster · Post by **thenudehamster** » Fri Oct 29, 2004 3:27 pm

The 'Standard' consist (or 'rake') is a perennial question, largely because there isn't really one - except when there is

Rule of thumb is:
a brake in some shape or form at the back
First Class closest to the platform exit, especially London trains
Restaurant/catering/dining coaches near the middle, but closest to the Firsts.

(that's not operational words, just how I remember them from travelling on them.

JADsHome · Post by **JADsHome** » Fri Oct 29, 2004 4:15 pm

Thanks NudeHamster (great name btw

) BTW What is the difference between a TSO and an SO ??? And where does the tourist bit come in to it all ???

thenudehamster · Post by **thenudehamster** » Fri Oct 29, 2004 4:27 pm

As Ian Mac said in his post, the basic difference was that 'Tourist' stock had more dense seating. I think it was considerably less plush, too...

One presumes that 'tourists' were the great unwashed, and therefore weren't worthy of the consideration real 'passengers' might have been given...

JADsHome · Post by **JADsHome** » Fri Oct 29, 2004 5:31 pm

Ooh whoops yes thanks for pointing that out

- I should pay more attention in class !!!

mickoo · Post by **mickoo** » Sat Oct 30, 2004 12:52 pm

Several divisions used set Mk2 formations, the most common being the West of England services behind class 50's and ETH 47's and the MR behind 45's and 46's.

In those instances starting from the London end a typical consist would be

FBO ( Mk2 )
FO ( Mk2 )
FO ( Mk2 )
Some sort of resurant car ( Mk1 as there are no Mk2 eateries to my knowledge )
TSO ( Mk2 )
TSO ( Mk2 )
TSO ( Mk2 )
TSO ( Mk2 )
TSO ( Mk2 )
TBSO( Mk2 )
BG ( Mk1 )

Ocasionally one of the FOs was replaced by another TSO, thus shunting the resurant one coach closer to the 1st class section.

Come to think of it l think the ER had some fixed sets towards the end of the Deltic reign, limited to 8 coaches and timed almost to HST speeds, there was a nick name for these services, but we gricers used to call em 'flyers', if you wanted a good Deltic thrash, these were the services to grab, usually London / York.

Hope that helps

Best regards

Michael

PS make sure your BG is running on B4 bogies and the Mk1 resurant on Commonwealths if your running a 100mph service, ie class 50 and 55, otherwise your limited to 90mph.