no replys to post/PM's

johnw1934 · Post by **johnw1934** » Sun Aug 22, 2004 9:11 pm

Not to mention any names but why is it when you ask somebody for help, you ask them really nice and mean every word and 99% of the people you write to dont even bother to reply (even after reading the PM you sent..). Its such a shame that you dont even get a ''sorry, i have got X X X to do and cant'' which atleast is some reply. Thats better than none. I remeber a few years ago people would throw themselfs at you to help.. I think it is a shame to loose that... Other than that, the forum is great.

Off my soap box now...

ash888 · Post by **ash888** » Sun Aug 22, 2004 9:43 pm

I know how you feel mate. I posted more pics on my forthcoming Namco Bahn route in the screenshots section but no-one seems interested in it anymore

. I seem to get more feedback to my project over on the train-sim.com forums than this one

. I think i may as well not bother to post anymore pics if no-one is interested

.

johnw1934 · Post by **johnw1934** » Sun Aug 22, 2004 10:01 pm

can i just say i have just had a look and they are fantastic.... keep up the good work.

XPTE · Post by **XPTE** » Mon Aug 23, 2004 4:13 pm

Here here I totally agree, it is annoying when people don't reply to your PM's. Recently I PM'd a member of a certain commercial MSTS developer asking for them not to help, but was offering for me to help THEM! And I would have been happy to help out too. Got absoultely nowt back from them, they didn't reply. The person in question knows who they are. I would have much rather preffered to got a "Thanks very much for your offer of help Marc. Unfortunately we do not require any further assistance with this project." which would have took them all of 20 seconds to type out, rather than them simply ignore my message. If I got that reply back I would have thought "ah well, was worth a try. Least they replied." But instead I thought "why an earth did I bother offering to help?".

Perhaps the people who don't reply to PM's when you ask them for help, or even you ask if you can help them, could post why they don't respond to PM's? They could even do this annomonously if they don't want to make themselves known.

Ash888, I can also relate to your situation. When I post updates on my route I get very very few responses, if any atall. Which is a little disappointing when you're enthusiastic about the project. But despite this, work is still continueing and I'm enthusiastic as ever about the route, and when I post further updates and get very little or no response atall, then so be it - but it wont stop me working on the route. Your route looks very good by the way, and different to the usual routes being built. Hope the lack of responses about your route doesn't dampen your enthusiam to get it completed.

johnw1934 · Post by **johnw1934** » Mon Aug 23, 2004 6:22 pm

Thanks for the replys. I am making a route and have asked for help with the models of the locos etc.. now i am gonna be a while, and i have offered a free CD (normally 5 pound each, CD in DVD case, and packaging and post), which i was hoping will be a unique route with unique to CD stock. But guess what.. No takers for help... which is a shame as everone seems intersted in making stuff that will be for sale in shops or something... E.G. for personal gain.. which i thinks a shame because not everybody can afford to buy all these add ons.

petermakosch · Post by **petermakosch** » Mon Aug 23, 2004 6:33 pm

People suck, its as simple as that.
I always reply, yet, whenever i really REALLY need a reply, the person doesnt do it. It just labels them as a something that I dont want to say right here

Pete

kevarc · Post by **kevarc** » Mon Aug 23, 2004 6:39 pm

It may be annoying, but there are times I look at a PM or email and just say - is this guy for real? I may not reply to all, but I do to most. If someone PM's me or emails me, I am under no obligation to respond unless I want to. Most I do not reply to are not asking a question, but demanding an answer and if I do respond, I tell them to KMA.

Do you realize the number of emails or PM's creators get? Esp when we release something? Many that I know never even look at the email or PM unless the reason is clearly stated in the topic line?

And it is no worse that we take OUR time to assist someone and they do not at least let us know that the problem was solved. Believe me, 80% do not. I have spend days going back and forth with people getting things to work and then boom - nothing.

johnw1934 · Post by **johnw1934** » Mon Aug 23, 2004 6:47 pm

kevarc wrote:Do you realize the number of emails or PM's creators get? Esp when we release something?

Yes i do, as Pat dalton, when he released SC1930 told me how many he used to get and he used to reply to them all.. it gives the creator a ''friendly'' image. Trust me on this one.. People like the ''happy to help'' people more than someone who ignors all thier messagers.. I feel they have took the time to write, they deserve the time for a reply.. We are all the same.. Put yourself in thier shoes.. wanting help and getting ignored..

kevarc · Post by **kevarc** » Mon Aug 23, 2004 6:53 pm

Then I move on. Bully for him answering all the email. Me, I look at it and then decide if I am going to reply or not. My choice.

You have to realize, I don't care. I do this for myself, not for you, him, or anyone else.

johnw1934 · Post by **johnw1934** » Mon Aug 23, 2004 6:56 pm

ok...

XPTE · Post by **XPTE** » Mon Aug 23, 2004 7:13 pm

I think if someone PM's someone asking a question, whether that person can help or not, then they should at least reply, even if its a "thanks but no thanks" message. It's only polite. I took about 10 minutes typing out my PM to <i>that</i> person kindly offering to help with their route if they needed any assistance. They couldn't even bother acknowledging my offer with a reply which would have took all of 10 seconds.

If I was a creator, and got a lot of PM's, I for one would make sure I reply to every person.

ash888 · Post by **ash888** » Mon Aug 23, 2004 7:34 pm

I think that (on the whole) ignoreing e-mails and PM's give the impression that the author is too lazy or rude to bother to reply

. All that would be doing is angering the other person who then will probably not bother contacting the author or even use his/her models again

. As for my route i have got upto Nara so far while i am still laying more track up to Kyoto and still working on the terrain too

. I am considering to release a beta version of it on http://www.train-sim.com in around september time - if anyone wants to beta test the route when i have finished the trackwork, signalling and placement of stations then feel free to PM me or e-mail me if anyone is interested in it

.

cheers

Yuri

markw · Post by **markw** » Mon Aug 23, 2004 7:44 pm

If only the world were so black and white, perfect and had Tinkerbell for World President.

Haven't you stopped to think that they may be (1) too busy doing work (as in day job) and evenings doing their project that they have decided to focus on that? Or (2) they have had bad experiences in the past when they've tried to help people only to have it slapped back in their face, that sadly they've decided no response is the best approach, or even (3) they may have a personal problem with things you personally may have said or done in the past? These people are human and if (and I don't know if this is the case) there has been past history, perhaps they feel the best policy is to ignore you rather than give a lot of bad attitude?

Oh, and as for the . about doing MSTS stuff for personal gain, again get real. By the time the publishers and distributors take their profits the amount the actual developers get is very small, in fact in my involvement on Belfast-Dublin I will be lucky to cover the cost of the two day trips I've made across to Ireland, despite the (cheap) air-fares and train fares only having come to around Â£100. As I'm retired on a sickness pension, that's Â£100 I can ill afford. Anyone involved in commercial projects doesn't do it for massive personal gain -you break even if you are lucky, as even UK routes need photography trips and books purchased. I've no idea why people continue in commercialware, it's so poorly paid. If you add up the hours of free time (precious free time after day jobs for many) spent developing the routes and rolling stock for add ons, and the amount you get back in royalties, and work out an hourly rate, it will be substantially less than the National Minimum Wage.

But I don't suppose anyone believes that because it doesn't fit your perfect models of the perfect world you all think you live in.

phill70 · Post by **phill70** » Mon Aug 23, 2004 8:21 pm

ash888 wrote:As for my route i have got upto Nara so far while i am still laying more track up to Kyoto and still working on the terrain too . I am considering to release a beta version of it on http://www.train-sim.com in around september time - if anyone wants to beta test the route when i have finished the trackwork, signalling and placement of stations then feel free to PM me or e-mail me if anyone is interested in it .

cheers

Yuri

Hi Yuri
why don't you upload a beta version here then ?

bigvern · Post by **bigvern** » Mon Aug 23, 2004 8:27 pm

I've always tried to help with sensible queries, but my patience does get tried with PM's or emails along the lines of, "how do I build a route?" when it's evident the person hasn't got the first clue where to start, hasn't searched the knowledge base on here or train-sim.com, bought the Route Building Guide etc. Many of us learned the hard way through trial and error - can I ever forget transposing thousands of individual grid references longhand off the map through Gridinquest to get lat/lon for markers, before TS Tools came along. I'm always willing to impart such knowledge as I may have gained but don't suffer fools gladly I'm afraid.

It's also generally more helpful to pop questions on a forum rather than email or PM to tap into the wider knowledge base. I've had a fair number of emails on the subject of "white tile" on West Highland 2, some going into extraordinary lengths to describe the problem. If they'd taken 5' to read the documentation that I wrote to accompany the route, it's all in there. Ditto coupler breaks.

A quick word on financial reward. Despite promises from certain quarters in early 2002 that route builders could easily net $50,000 per route and exhortations to give up the day job the reality was pathetically different. For the Cambrian, after tax (which came off at 40%) I made just over Â£1000 net after deducting costs of research material etc. That for probably over 500 hours of work. So it certainly wasn't done to get rich! For a route published in the shops, around 20% of wholesale (not retail) goes back to the developer which - assuming a team of 6 or 7 working on the project - equals around 40p a copy before Gordon Brown's share.