When MSTS was first introduced it seemed to me an ideal way of spending an hour or two most evenings "playing trains". Gentlemen of your ilk introduced new lines and new ativities and it just got better and better. I understand virtually nothing of programming or the "internals" of your programmes or activities and of how they run, but that didn't seem to matter.
Sadly for me it now seems to matter a very great deal and what was a pleasure has now become a nightmare with the number of problems that arise when I try to run the simulator. It seems that you brilliant gentlemen are making things more and more sophisticated and I must confess when I can get one to work the results are magnificent (usually).
I implore you not to take this as a criticism of you collectively, it reflects more, my lack of knowledge and intellect. It does however leave me increasingly disillusioned with the situation as it is today. I suppose this process is inevitable and the incompetants like me must fall by the wayside but it does seem a little sad. I shall in all probability re-install MSTS and stick to running the original 6 routes.
Thank you all for the pleasure you have so nearly given me.
peterjay
Disillusion
Moderator: Moderators
I have not got the time or inclination to download routes etc. This is why I am fairly constantly asking when the next freeware CD's are coming, I recently purchased Ballyshannon which like most recent CD's have loaded very easily, I await the new Thames Mersey freeware CD so my friend don't give up on MSTS just think how lucky we are that people are prepared to give up their time to create excellent freeware CD's for £4.50.
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NeutronIC
- Atomic Systems Team
- Posts: 11085
- Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2001 12:00 am
- Location: E11, London, England
- Contact:
Hi Peter,
Perhaps you could describe the problems you're having so we can help? I'm not aware of anything particularly that's changed?
Also, have a look at the Beginners Guide tutorial (click 'help' on the front page) and also look at these video tutorials that i've started working on to see if anything helps you out:
http://www.uktrainsim.com/tutorials.php
But as 'ABABAB' says, if all else fails, the CD's are specifically aimed at those who just want to plug-and-play and I am always trying to get more of them sorted - there are several new ones coming soon.
But as I say, if you can describe the files you're trying to install and the problems that you're having i'm sure you'll get some answers (and it always helps me to find out what i need to do video tutorials on if i hear lots of people are having difficulties with various things
).
Matt.
Perhaps you could describe the problems you're having so we can help? I'm not aware of anything particularly that's changed?
Also, have a look at the Beginners Guide tutorial (click 'help' on the front page) and also look at these video tutorials that i've started working on to see if anything helps you out:
http://www.uktrainsim.com/tutorials.php
But as 'ABABAB' says, if all else fails, the CD's are specifically aimed at those who just want to plug-and-play and I am always trying to get more of them sorted - there are several new ones coming soon.
But as I say, if you can describe the files you're trying to install and the problems that you're having i'm sure you'll get some answers (and it always helps me to find out what i need to do video tutorials on if i hear lots of people are having difficulties with various things
).Matt.
That's why my CD compilation will always be available (and thanks to Matt for the recent plug) as with the exception of one or two rolling stock items, most of the pieces are set up as auto or easy install.
You will be missing out if you stick with the supplied 6 routes, there is so much good stuff out there which transforms the simulation beyond the relatively simple efforts of Kuju.
Also don't forget the commercial expansion packs are virtually all "ezee on" and routes like LBE, Cambrian Coast, SVR and WSR should keep you busy for hours.
As regards installing downloaded items, well there are a few tips and tricks to learn - particularly if you want to use the better cabs and sounds. However having just got back into Flight Sim in a fairly big way I have to say the situation with freeware third party add ons for that is no different. In fact, even less of the stuff I've downloaded for FS9 recently has any form of auto installer. Many also require you to mess about in the config files, or to copy and paste files into various sub folders.
I guess at the end of the day it's how much you want out of the programme - both MSTS and FS. The proprietary experience is good, but why stick with the default Dash 9 on Marias Pass when you can be hammering up Sumpter Valley or Durango & Silverton, or flying the rather ersatz default 737 when with a bit of work you can have a fully tooled up screaming DC10?
You will be missing out if you stick with the supplied 6 routes, there is so much good stuff out there which transforms the simulation beyond the relatively simple efforts of Kuju.
Also don't forget the commercial expansion packs are virtually all "ezee on" and routes like LBE, Cambrian Coast, SVR and WSR should keep you busy for hours.
As regards installing downloaded items, well there are a few tips and tricks to learn - particularly if you want to use the better cabs and sounds. However having just got back into Flight Sim in a fairly big way I have to say the situation with freeware third party add ons for that is no different. In fact, even less of the stuff I've downloaded for FS9 recently has any form of auto installer. Many also require you to mess about in the config files, or to copy and paste files into various sub folders.
I guess at the end of the day it's how much you want out of the programme - both MSTS and FS. The proprietary experience is good, but why stick with the default Dash 9 on Marias Pass when you can be hammering up Sumpter Valley or Durango & Silverton, or flying the rather ersatz default 737 when with a bit of work you can have a fully tooled up screaming DC10?
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solentskipper
- Getting the hang of things now
- Posts: 47
- Joined: Thu Nov 27, 2003 10:42 am
- Location: nr Skipton North York on the Penine way
- Contact:
i would put my self in your shoes and moreso im no good at progamming and activity writing but frankly with the help and support available on these forums i really dont understand the problem . you got a problem just ask and you will be surprised who might give you the answer ( the bloke who wrote the route) as happened to me get freeware on this site for under a fiver .and most of the decent routes come with activities and the stock to run those activities all on the CD and have been tested and in most cases self install try Bala Hub,Mid East UK all the stock and activities included if your computer can handle it Skipton to Carlisle . Thats just Three. yu want to pay try Severn Valley Railway or Cambrian Coast all available via this site. Frankly if I may say so I think your complaining about a problem that doesnt exist and your comments about only being able to run the routes that came with train sim is not even worth answering unless yu running a sinclair spectrum. if the knowlege i have of computing trainsim proramming activity writing were made into gunpowder and ignited it wouldnt blow my hat off and i been using train sim and this site for two years have deletd all but UK routes and im a disabld geriatric surely you cant be saying your in my league WOW
sympathetic regards
Solent Skipper
sympathetic regards
Solent Skipper
I have some sympathy for PeterJay. Some of the latest additions have pushed MSTS to the very limits. NWE2, Mersey to name just two.
Whilst there is no doubt they are great additions, they do bring with them a clutch of problems for users and activity writers alike, when polys on tiles ( i dont know what that means but its been told to me many times lately ) reach their maximum so that the slightest bit of extra traffic brings everything to a grinding halt.
Im not sure what the solution is - bigger, faster machines and hard disks, or smaller, less detailed, routes.
Whilst there is no doubt they are great additions, they do bring with them a clutch of problems for users and activity writers alike, when polys on tiles ( i dont know what that means but its been told to me many times lately ) reach their maximum so that the slightest bit of extra traffic brings everything to a grinding halt.
Im not sure what the solution is - bigger, faster machines and hard disks, or smaller, less detailed, routes.
Gentlemen,
Your replies deserve some sort of response from me. Lad 491,s post epitomises what I was trying (rather badly) to say. If I may use the Thames - Merseyside route as an example there were some problems at the launch which YOU (the author and folk like bigvern and Matt) were able to solve. In typical open and generous fashion these solutions were passed on(which incidentally means I wholeheartedly agree with ABABAB's comments as to how lucky we are) but my lack of "computer knowledge" means that most of it goes over my head. The fault is entirely mine, no one elses. I downloaded a recent additional activity to the route in which the author pointed out a temporary short-coming together with a solution to it: absolutely nothing to do with him that I have been completely unable to do as he suggested!. So I have got tantalisingly close to seeing precisely what you mean Mr Moorhouse which I'm afraid only adds to my frustrations.
Solent Skipper I don't think I quite said some of the things you suggest but you make a fair point. I have been retired nearly 10 years now and my "disability" is mental, my poor inadequate brain is now only capable of increasing wonderment at the expertise shown here not in following it. Maybe this old dog will learn a new trick now and again, who knows!.
Your replies deserve some sort of response from me. Lad 491,s post epitomises what I was trying (rather badly) to say. If I may use the Thames - Merseyside route as an example there were some problems at the launch which YOU (the author and folk like bigvern and Matt) were able to solve. In typical open and generous fashion these solutions were passed on(which incidentally means I wholeheartedly agree with ABABAB's comments as to how lucky we are) but my lack of "computer knowledge" means that most of it goes over my head. The fault is entirely mine, no one elses. I downloaded a recent additional activity to the route in which the author pointed out a temporary short-coming together with a solution to it: absolutely nothing to do with him that I have been completely unable to do as he suggested!. So I have got tantalisingly close to seeing precisely what you mean Mr Moorhouse which I'm afraid only adds to my frustrations.
Solent Skipper I don't think I quite said some of the things you suggest but you make a fair point. I have been retired nearly 10 years now and my "disability" is mental, my poor inadequate brain is now only capable of increasing wonderment at the expertise shown here not in following it. Maybe this old dog will learn a new trick now and again, who knows!.
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johndibben
- Bletchley Park:home of first programmable computer
- Posts: 14007
- Joined: Mon Dec 03, 2001 12:00 am
- Location: Bletchley
Peter,
I wasn't sure exactly whatyou meant and so left it alone. You've made it much clearer now.
Don't like to hear people thinking they're thick or something when they're 'Mr. Average' and simply want to enjoy the sim. They shouldn't be defensive and 'pipe-up' as this is surely what these forums are for.
I'd be totally bamboozled by all the chat if I hadn't been around since the site was set up. Still am, by a lot of it I can't answer most 'newbies' (hate that term) questions which really make you feel thick 
The sim was never easy to add to but became more so thanks to utilities and help on these forums. I've encountered several people who never got over the hurdle of 3rd party add-ons and quickly got fed up of the sim.
It has to be remembered that most people who have PC's, have very little knowledge of even cutting and pasting, Zip files appear confusing and they tend to give up on anything they don't understand very quickly.
To many of us on here it's all very simple and we take it for granted that others' will pick it up quickly after reading a tutorial. I'm hopeless at tutorials and fiddle until things come out right. Then I forget how I managed it
As Vern pointed out, the above and altering config files are neccessary in fs9. That makes you think it must be OK. However, flightsim is well established and very popular. They probably don't feel the need to be user friendly.
There's plenty of routes available, both freeware, P&P CD's and commercial as has been said and they have self-installers. Freeware use of auto-installers tends to leave a trail of entires in my program file list which is annoying.
As for the sim itself, it's old and 'dead', in development term but it's still a good program and wasn't really designed for what's being thrown at it. No doubt the assumption was that MSTS2 would've been here this year at the latest. I can understand the many people who bought it and got fed up very quickly and were simply trying something new.
Through sites such as these, it became far easier to use but probably peaked around 18 months after release. There's an understandable desire for better routes and this can be accommodated, in part, by increased average PC specs.
The situation now, 3 years on, and no MSTS2 is very confused and there's many ideas as to which is the best way forward.
I'm certain MSTS has plenty of life in it and it's simply a matter of deciding how to provide 3rd party content that the majority of users want and able to be installed easily.
Peter Jay appears one such 'average' user and please can we have more speak up if they feel disallusioned as we can, hopefully, make them feel they're as much a part of things and valued as much as 'experts'.
No point providing stuff if the intended receipiants feel left out or confused by what's provided.
I know it's easier said than done but testing things properly and getting things right, as far as possible, first time would help.
I wasn't sure exactly whatyou meant and so left it alone. You've made it much clearer now.
Don't like to hear people thinking they're thick or something when they're 'Mr. Average' and simply want to enjoy the sim. They shouldn't be defensive and 'pipe-up' as this is surely what these forums are for.
I'd be totally bamboozled by all the chat if I hadn't been around since the site was set up. Still am, by a lot of it
I can't answer most 'newbies' (hate that term) questions which really make you feel thick The sim was never easy to add to but became more so thanks to utilities and help on these forums. I've encountered several people who never got over the hurdle of 3rd party add-ons and quickly got fed up of the sim.
It has to be remembered that most people who have PC's, have very little knowledge of even cutting and pasting, Zip files appear confusing and they tend to give up on anything they don't understand very quickly.
To many of us on here it's all very simple and we take it for granted that others' will pick it up quickly after reading a tutorial. I'm hopeless at tutorials and fiddle until things come out right. Then I forget how I managed it
As Vern pointed out, the above and altering config files are neccessary in fs9. That makes you think it must be OK. However, flightsim is well established and very popular. They probably don't feel the need to be user friendly.
There's plenty of routes available, both freeware, P&P CD's and commercial as has been said and they have self-installers. Freeware use of auto-installers tends to leave a trail of entires in my program file list which is annoying.
As for the sim itself, it's old and 'dead', in development term but it's still a good program and wasn't really designed for what's being thrown at it. No doubt the assumption was that MSTS2 would've been here this year at the latest. I can understand the many people who bought it and got fed up very quickly and were simply trying something new.
Through sites such as these, it became far easier to use but probably peaked around 18 months after release. There's an understandable desire for better routes and this can be accommodated, in part, by increased average PC specs.
The situation now, 3 years on, and no MSTS2 is very confused and there's many ideas as to which is the best way forward.
I'm certain MSTS has plenty of life in it and it's simply a matter of deciding how to provide 3rd party content that the majority of users want and able to be installed easily.
Peter Jay appears one such 'average' user and please can we have more speak up if they feel disallusioned as we can, hopefully, make them feel they're as much a part of things and valued as much as 'experts'.
No point providing stuff if the intended receipiants feel left out or confused by what's provided.
I know it's easier said than done but testing things properly and getting things right, as far as possible, first time would help.
Matt,
Would that it were that simple. I will give you a specific example but I must insist, this is NOT a complaint. The activity is Early Morning Shift Pt 2, the highlighted situation was the non-inclusion of a Blue Arrow item, the solution to let Route Riter add.
I downloaded Route Riter, fired it up and was informed "could not find file ff?? in my Utils folder and that without it Route Riter could not function fully
Could not find that file to download so am unable to carry out the mod, Will wait for patch.
Matt it isn't the end of the world NOR is it the authors fault and nor was the instruction poorly written.. It is my lack of knowledge and expertise, which was my basic point. You must acknowledge from the great amount of correspondence that there were problems associated with the launch of Thames-Mersey, all of which between you have been solved. My difficulty is in understanding how to carry out the work. I should have kept my mouth shut and in future I will. It does leave me feeling bloody inadequate though and that is NOT how to enjoy a hobby!
My apologies for ever having raised the subject.
peterjay
Would that it were that simple. I will give you a specific example but I must insist, this is NOT a complaint. The activity is Early Morning Shift Pt 2, the highlighted situation was the non-inclusion of a Blue Arrow item, the solution to let Route Riter add.
I downloaded Route Riter, fired it up and was informed "could not find file ff?? in my Utils folder and that without it Route Riter could not function fully
Could not find that file to download so am unable to carry out the mod, Will wait for patch.
Matt it isn't the end of the world NOR is it the authors fault and nor was the instruction poorly written.. It is my lack of knowledge and expertise, which was my basic point. You must acknowledge from the great amount of correspondence that there were problems associated with the launch of Thames-Mersey, all of which between you have been solved. My difficulty is in understanding how to carry out the work. I should have kept my mouth shut and in future I will. It does leave me feeling bloody inadequate though and that is NOT how to enjoy a hobby!
My apologies for ever having raised the subject.
peterjay
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johndibben
- Bletchley Park:home of first programmable computer
- Posts: 14007
- Joined: Mon Dec 03, 2001 12:00 am
- Location: Bletchley
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johndibben
- Bletchley Park:home of first programmable computer
- Posts: 14007
- Joined: Mon Dec 03, 2001 12:00 am
- Location: Bletchley
Peter,peterjay wrote:I should have kept my mouth shut and in future I will. It does leave me feeling bloody inadequate though and that is NOT how to enjoy a hobby!
My apologies for ever having raised the subject.
peterjay
I posted my previous post before reading your last one.
If I understand correctly, you're saying that solutions are offered but you don't know how to implement them?
I understand that perfectly. I'd understand it if you didn't feel you should have to learn anything beyond downloading a patch which is easily installed.
The site is mainly inhabited by people who have adopted the grandiose title of 'developers'. I've always thought contributors would be a less stuffy discription.
It's very easy to spend so much time communicatiing with one another that what might be seen as complicated to the 'average' person, appears 'basic knowledge'. That could mean some people are left feeling inadequate which should never be but isn't a deliberate slur by anyone.
It's also difficult to mention specific problems as that would single out those people and cause offence and cries of 'ungrateful' which are all too common, I have to say.
If that's the case, I understand and I'm sure most other members do as well.
Mentioning it is only harmful if it's met with a negative response which isn't your problem. Members should never feel intimidated into silence and it has to be sensible to allow people to post 'generalised' problems to ensure it doesn't get personal
Following the little rennaisance in Route CD orders (thanks Matt!) I don't think MSTS is quite dead yet. As work is steadily progressing on the short route to accompany the BATS SR pack and I'm still planning to do one more freeware route (part of the Central Line) I sincerely hope not! However this is a useful point of view from the more casual user as opposed to the fanatics (like me!). I do have to ask whether the enthusiasm will still be there six months from now - particularly with titles like Doom 3, Transport Giant (though I understand it's not that good), Rollercoaster Tycoon 3 and maybe later this year the new version of Transport Tycoon. We shall see!
Of course the community is holding its breath to a certain extent while seeing what the promised developments from PI, TA and Auran deliver as regards the next generation train sims. However this thread goes to prove that user friendliness through all steps of the programme is absolutely essential to attract and sustain the widest possible interest.
Of course the community is holding its breath to a certain extent while seeing what the promised developments from PI, TA and Auran deliver as regards the next generation train sims. However this thread goes to prove that user friendliness through all steps of the programme is absolutely essential to attract and sustain the widest possible interest.