MSTS2 E-mail

[Timcourt1]

Thanks Martin, from the shots it just didnt seem like their work- thats the only reason i asked

[NeutronIC]

Sometimes you have to look at the outlay to get to saleable product, and sometimes you have to take stock of where you're at and what you're trying to do and if a product doesn't fit within the new 'slim' focus of a company they drop it even if it's a potential earner. The biggest mistake any company can make is to try to be jack of all trades and Microsoft have been diversifying to the nth degree of late.

They have recently announced that they have dropped a number of Xbox titles too.

Far from the payouts mentioned by Vern earlier, more recent payouts include over 2 BILLION dollars to Sun Microsystems, so I strongly suspect Microsoft are taking stock of everything they do and trying to refocus on what they're best at (i'm not going to speculate what that is and cause a flamewar ).

Plus, if you have spent x thousands of pounds getting to somewhere, and then you're told you need to scrap it and spend at least another x, possibly more to get it to sale, the total cost of the project is going to be more than 2 times x - not just the cost of the rewrite, and perhaps by the time you take that in to account it starts getting silly and revenue figures aren't high enough for them to justify the product any more. Project managers are a strange beast, they have a tough job to do and some times it has to come down to bean counting whether it looks logical from an external point of view or not. There's also an issue of 'risk' - all the money spent on developing something is risk, perhaps with the massively over inflated costs of MSTS 2 due to what might well be a necessary complete rewrite, plus the growing competition from Trainz (which as I say, will probably do for what most users will want) they might well have perceived that risk as just being unacceptable. Most companies have simple straightforward (ish) procedures to determine if a project proceeds, you value the competition, you value your project, you do your sums and if the difference isn't enough in the plus (or heaven forbid it's in the minus) then you bin it.

Though personally I think that the estimates of millions of dollars to redevelop Train Sim are ludicrous, if that is indeed the case, I say, Microsoft, give it to me, i'll bloody do it for half a million dollars LOL

Matt.

[saddletank]

Heck, Matt if you need someone to get the coffees and feed you cake while you write it, for a slice of that 1/2 million, I'll be tea boy!

[Timcourt1]

Bagsy I get to sweep the floor

[NeutronIC]

Hell no, the pair of you would get chained to a desk and told to build routes LOL

Matt.

[Christopher125]

Hi

MS probably don't have enough in-house developers to do all of their projects plus MSTS2, so another reason why the development cost is prohibitively high at the moment is because extra developers would have to be brought in. There may then be a chance in the future (1 year+) that they may have finished some projects, and are looking at what to do next, especially if MS try to consolidate there foothold in the market by growing on known and successful titles instead of ones that may flop. As TS2, deemed to be a somewhat specialist product, has done so well, there may be a chance that it is resurected in a few years time.

However, this is all conjecture, so I may be wrong

Chris

[boeing126]

Well i dont believe its anything to do with cost of development,Its more to do with MICROSOFT DONT DO GAMES they never have and never will so when they got it back from kuju they were up the creak without a paddle.Thats when i said in more than one post in these forums if M.S.T.S was on the shelves before may 2004 i would stand on the steps of Manchester cathederal steps naked.

[NeutronIC]

Microsoft are definitely in favour of games, what do you think the Xbox is? Microsoft do pay for games to be developed, what do you think Project Gotham, Combat Flight Sim, Halo, Crimson Skies and so forth were? Microsoft are funding a lot of developments in the future too, such as Halo 2.

I think they're moving their game focus over to the Xbox (which would seem to make corporate sense, if you are trying to promote a games platform, why sell games that don't run on it) as well as refine what they invest in.

There's nothing stopping them outsourcing again the same as they would with anything else - they do have a number of games developers in the company, the inventor of Tetris for one, they are perfectly capable of developing games, but why bother when you can subcontract to another organisation (hopefully) more knowledgable of the area?

Matt.

[jains15]

OK im a little inebriated but here's my take.

Face it, trainsimmers are at the fringes of PC gaming, however big the community feels. Im surprised we have ANY trainsimming software and that microsoft commisioned msts in the first place.

With that in mind, and as an avid PC gamer (I play everything from flightsims to 3 person action games to RTS's. Although i do love trains ) ive felt for a while that PC gaming is becoming the fringe of gaming in general. With the PS2 and XBoX going from strength to strenth, a lot of the time we get console ports. I can think of loads of titles that are cross platform and are worse for it. Godamnit Halo was originally for PC but went to XBox for its "Killer App" and we got it 2 years later looking dated.

My view is we're bloody lucky to have a CHOICE on what sim to use (2 payware and 1 freeware). There is however a gap in the market and some1 will step into the breach eventually, be it auran or some1 else. It cant personally see EA spending enough time on the title to satisfy rivet counters.

I also think open source is a non starter because of compatability issues as was disscussed previously.

anyway thinking aloud over
jon

[boeing126]

Well you might be right matt but i dont rate these xbox and playstation things,So i,m gonna chug along the old Skipton 1920 do a bit of fishing and golfing and spend my twilight years thinking what might have been if we had have got M.S.T.S 2 you know like racing up to York in the black5 Sorry not taking the p. But you got to laugh after all its not the end of the world is it?

[bigvern]

Reflecting on what Matt and others have added since my last post, I have to agree with much of what has been said. I have noticed for some time a deterioration in the variety of PC games available, while the space for console games in Game gets bigger and bigger. When was the last half decent combat flight sim, comparable with programmes like Longbow 2, USNF or Tornado? Nada. Train Sim was always going to be a niche product in an industry overall very much focused on the 18 - 25 demograph who want instant gratification in a shoot em up or arcade racer. Not us 40 something old farts who like perambulating up the Far North line at 55 MPH with a Black Five or Class 26!

Thanks to Matt for assuring the future of UKTS, even if in a few years time it comes down to a small hardcore group of a few hundred supporting MTS1, we still need our clubhouse! Who knows, I may break out of RE retirement and do another. In some ways the cancellation has lifted a weight off third party developers like myself who were hesitating to do anything new with MTS1 in the shadow of an MTS2. I'll be reflecting on my plans for the future over the next few weeks.

[boeing126]

Vern i agree 100% with what you say,Going back to the Amiga 500,600,1200 days there were some good programs about,And your comments about lack of programs for the p.c is also correct.Its got to be xbox or playstation nowdays or the kids dont want to know and they have to be chipped whatever that means.Its also nice to read you might just come out of retirement.I hope Tim Court might just extend the Mideast a little further north.I think there is still a lot of mileage in the old girl yet.

[NeutronIC]

Adding to my last post... (because I have no idea when to shut up as anyone that's met me knows )

A positive spin on MSTS coming out of the limelight and reducing to core supporters is that the magpie's will move on - a large number of the "i want!" "when will i have?" "can someone do?" "can you extend the route to xyz 460 miles away?" people will likely move on to the next glitzy thing, probably Trainz, maybe a different genre entirely. This will leave the community reduced to some core supporters that will probably have a really good time - much like in the early days (ahhh them were the days lad).

Also, having spent this weekend at Horsham running Cannock Chase 4 and North West England 2 I have to say, this puppy ain't dead yet, both of those routes are just outstanding and there's hundreds of hours of enjoyment to be had out of each of those - and there are still more freeware routes under construction and on the way such as the SWLR.

Matt.

[NeutronIC]

Time and other commitment permitting, I believe Tim is working on Mideast at the moment, though I don't think he's extending it, he's updating the current version

Another cracker to look forward to if he's able to complete it.

Matt.

[GeorgeJacksonChurchward]

MODERATOR'S HAT ON

Ohhhh i do like you in pink,John.

regards,
Mike.