MSTS2 E-mail

GeorgeJacksonChurchward · Sat Apr 17, 2004 7:36 am

HAHAHAHAHAHA ,the usual one eyed rubbish on the TRS v msts debate.

I will be very grateful if all the idiots here decide NOT to migrate to TRS,in fact i will be overjoyed.

Keep convincing yourselves that msts is manna from heaven,funny really it was only 12 months back that everyone was slagging off it`s bad points in antiscipation of v2.

jdjonny · Post by **jdjonny** » Sat Apr 17, 2004 8:05 am

hmmmmmmmmm

JDJonny

1crick14a · Post by **1crick14a** » Sat Apr 17, 2004 8:34 am

I think we need a public statement to be made on this there are plenty of
channels MS can use.

Until the physics side for steam anyway is sorted and the signalling I will
be keeping my money in my pocket when it comes to buying Trainz.....R

allypally · Post by **allypally** » Sat Apr 17, 2004 8:54 am

ill try and confirm this, a friend of mines mother working on this project.

pmorgancym · Post by **pmorgancym** » Sat Apr 17, 2004 9:30 am

It is sad news, I too never got on with Trainz, there was something about it I just didn't like, I think it's model railway sim roots still shine through. I've just discovered BVE and have found that to have more of a "real" feel than the commercal sims.

I remember in the very early days of Verns Rail pages that a community Train Sim project was mooted, perhaps time to dust that idea off? There are already some skilled people out there working with MsTs, wonder what they coudl do with alil more freedom.

Must get round to renewing my preium subscription to UKTS my mid east is crying out for some of the newer HSTs.

Schachtschabel · Post by **Schachtschabel** » Sat Apr 17, 2004 9:31 am

Let's wait and see untill some news from MS arrives.

MSTS2 may not be published what about MSTS2005 or MSTS2006?

saddletank · Post by **saddletank** » Sat Apr 17, 2004 9:32 am

For those who have not gone over the other side of the pond, here is the US thread:

http://www.train-sim.com/dcforum/DCForumID18/319.html

And also from a contact of mine this morning:

QUOTE
> Take a look at the MSTS II forum today. News is that someone at
> Microsoft has said that the MSTS II project has been cancelled.

Did a bit of research. This appears to be accurate. Funding was not appropriated for further development of that title. The software outsource company that was handed the Kuju MSTS 2 codes is at this point idled in regards to the MSTS 2 project.
UNQUOTE

I understand Big Vern's assertion that any core of users of a simulation that is dead-ended will gradually become smaller and eventually there will be a payware market so small as to make further commercial ventures unrenumerative, however there are still many MSTS1 commercial projects in progress and this news cannot affect those adversely since it implies more user time to run these under MSTS1 (no v2 coming over the horizon).

It remains to be seen if 3rd party commercial developers produce new content after this. Many of them have day jobs so will not be adversely affected very seriously and most are enthusiasts first and foremost and businessmen second. However a few, including a couple of the big names are exclusively in the MSTS add-ons market and if their products sales start to drop off because customers cannot get the original game anymore then they will most likely turn to writing add-ons for other titles.

So yes, gradual entrenchment in the commercial sector is inevitable (who last saw anything new from TrainArtisan for example) but this could be turned around if MS issued the source and I am sure there are plenty of talented code writers out there who with enough time could overcome many of the bugs that Kuju couldn't because of the time constraints they were under.

And finally there is no reason the freeware community could not go on indefinitely, for many many years. I play Age of Sail 2 which was released in 2000 and abandoned by Talonsoft and Take 2 Interactive over 18 months ago yet there is a strong community still active online with new scenarios being written and bugs being squashed by 3rd party add-on writers. The freeware community supporting that game has formed a core of coders and is writing an AoS3.

My contacts include a couple of the small-time US payware authors and this news has not adversely affected them at all, they are continuing to build.

There are still lots of new MSTS CDs around with the distributors, if an enthusiast seriously wants to buy a copy he can still do so and will be able to do so for some time to come(*). And what about Hornby Dublo? No new product support for decades and yet a thriving fan community exists.

(*) Matt, perhaps worth enquiring from Contact sales or others if there is a stockpile of MSTS1 CDs UKTS could secure and then distribute yourself if necessary?

GeorgeJacksonChurchward · Sat Apr 17, 2004 9:42 am

Until the physics side for steam anyway is sorted and the signalling

You cannot make a valid comment on something you know nothing about.You do not own TRS2004 ,so therefore do not have first hand knowledge of the software.

I have been on the beta test team since before UTC and therefore have first hand experience of the continual improvements strived for and attained by Auran.

SP2 is yet again a quantum leap forward and it`s FREE.

I also run msts ,but with no interest in model depictions of preserved railways or 12 mile short branch lines,i prefer US & Australian routes.

At the moment i have CoalRoad,Blue Mountain & Melbourne - Ballarat installed ,all very good routes by msts standards.Still limited in what you can do with them though,drive from A - B.

If i want real railway operation i run TRS, with working turntables,dual use cabs on twin cab diesels,drive from both ends of dmu`s (not with mock ups either),instruct loco`s to run around trains and recouple.The list is almost endless.

The old chestnut about Trainz being a model railway sim ,now holds no water what so ever.The graphics are better than msts,easy of use and flexibility is far greater and it doesn't crash my pc every 5 mins if i happen to breath the wrong way.

Now i`m not trying to sell anyone anything,i get nothing out of stating my preference.There are quite a few people on the msts side of the fence,who do have a vested interest in promoting it over TRS2004,the ones with their fingers in the honey pot of payware.

So when someone is "whispering in your ear" that Trainz is . and that msts is from the gods,try thinking for yourselves i find it works wonders.

saddletank · Post by **saddletank** » Sat Apr 17, 2004 9:46 am

Moderators Note:

This post is not in response to the post above but to some posters earlier in this thread who raised the subject of Trainz 2004. This thread is about the cancellation of MSTS2. Please DO NOT make any comparison with any other simulators or we will just end up in another flame fest and the useful content in this thread will be overshadowed.

Any further posts mentioning other simulators will be edited.

johndibben · Post by **johndibben** » Sat Apr 17, 2004 10:04 am

I've had a lot of fun with MSTS and it's sad that it appears there won't be a follow up. Even die-hard Trainz'ers I know, still enjoy MSTS

Personally, this news makes no difference as it appeared likely when Kuju pulled out and almost certain when MS said nothing. Despite 'assurances' from 'insiders', I always felt MSTS2 was a myth happily given creedence by those who's plans benefitted from continued belief in it.

Changes in commercial output was a strong hint with a move away from long term projects and methods of distribution.

MSTS is not Hornby-Dublo though. That lasted for many years and the products evolved into what's used today. MSTS has been on the shelves for less than 3 years and wasn't the toy almost every child had for generations.

On the positive side, I'm sure die-hards will ensure MSTS will continue even if it does inevitably dwindle away to a dedicated band of enthusiasts.

In effect, that has been the situation now for many months.

I'm not surprised at the comments on the Trainz forum. A lot of rubbiish has been said about Trainz by people who havn't even tried it recently.

Having said that, IKB has a point when MSTS, MS and Kuju were continulaay derided on these and other forums. As a whole, we probably share the blame for the fate of MSTS

johny · Post by **johny** » Sat Apr 17, 2004 10:09 am

Presumably my post was also deleted, I would point out it was composed on line during the time the moderator post was uploaded, so until looking at the thread later one was unaware of the moderator's post.

John

saddletank · Post by **saddletank** » Sat Apr 17, 2004 10:12 am

My sincere apologies, I meant your post. I have removed my one above since you appear to have posted while I was doing my mods note.

johndibben · Post by **johndibben** » Sat Apr 17, 2004 10:27 am

MODERATOR'S HAT ON

Don't like to get all mod'ish but this will be a hot topic and I'd ask nicely, please discuss it without personal abuse or direct comparisons to other products?

Well understand the dissappointment considering assurances have been given that MSTS2 was still alive. That might still be the case but it looks unlikely.

I'm sure most still want to enjoy MSTS and a really nasty bunfight at this time will only hasten any drop in popularity.

So, for the sake of those who still enjoy it and are creating for it, please try and keep a lid on it although feelings are bound to run high on this subject

Thank you,

John

jbilton · Post by **jbilton** » Sat Apr 17, 2004 11:11 am

Well....and its only from my personal point of view....but I think it depends on why you use MSTS.
If your a hardened gamer...then yes its as dead as ditchwater.
However if like me...you like to pretend your driving 1960s green diesels in a gone bye era....or if your a fifties man with steamers...or earlier still.

The stuff thats already been done...works for me and most people...and always will .
Thats not saying if a new product comes out... that is far supeior...I wouldn't change...because of course I would.(But I couldn't give up all my green diesels because that would be a backwards step)
But if thats not happening....doesn't matter a jot.
Commericially is a totally different picture....luckily our developers are really fans underneath

...so I cant see many of them drifting away either.
(PS If anyone is throwing the towel in and have any addons they want to sell...I'm in the market.

)

Oh and I forgot to add....a big thank you to Big Bill and MS...for doing the simmulator in the first place....I personally think it must have been a financial disaster for them. ...but hell he can afford it.

1crick14a · Post by **1crick14a** » Sat Apr 17, 2004 11:49 am

Well said Jbilton well said, it's taken me 2 bloody years to sort the steam physics out to how I want them I'm happy, nowt will change me it's what I
always dreamed of and I can go back a long long way on rail sims.....R