msts routes ok for msts2

delticd9000 · Post by **delticd9000** » Fri Jan 09, 2004 3:02 pm

hi

just wondered when msts2 comes out will the routes from msts be ok to run on msts2 ???

id put mideastuk on msts2 just hope it will be ok for msts2

LucaZone · Post by **LucaZone** » Fri Jan 09, 2004 3:42 pm

My oppinion is the 2 games wont be compatible. I heard Microsoft werent going with KUJU's work which means a new game and engine and files and system will be created. Making route conversion impossible.

But with what they had planned in mSTS2 before it was changed, would make route creation much faster and easier. So im confident the problems and hurdles of msts1 route creation will be a thing of the past.

jbilton · Post by **jbilton** » Fri Jan 09, 2004 5:55 pm

LucaZone wrote:My oppinion is the 2 games wont be compatible. I heard Microsoft werent going with KUJU's work which means a new game and engine and files and system will be created. Making route conversion impossible.

But with what they had planned in mSTS2 before it was changed, would make route creation much faster and easier. So im confident the problems and hurdles of msts1 route creation will be a thing of the past.

Hi
What do you think...it'll be more based on the fightsim engine

Not very up on MS Games (in fact not up on games at all) but apart from Midtown can't think of any other engines MS own

Christopher125 · Post by **Christopher125** » Fri Jan 09, 2004 6:00 pm

Hi

I doubt the routes will be compatible, like adam said, but at least all the objects and trains can be updated if the authors have the original source files.

Chris

lateagain · Post by **lateagain** » Fri Jan 09, 2004 8:10 pm

No aggresion intended here, but who cares?

Personally I've enjoyed what's been made available by the talents of the international community, and as someone said recently "turned this Sow's Ear into a Silk Purse", so I for one will not be trashing all of this excellent stuff just because Micro$oft finally (as usual - probably as usual "with bugs) gets their act together to release a bit of software.

Just a though but can we refer to it on the forums in future as "Sow's Ear 2" as the more sporting of you may wish to put some money on that?

Seriously though with Hardware prices at a low and with loads of second hand stuff available (like extra HDD) as the "hardcore nerds" upgrade to a Billion Meg of Ram and 10,000 Gig hard drives........ I've slipped into flipant again...... I'd have thought most people will want to install SE2 seperately before committing to trashing what we've already got?

I used to love "Silent Hunter" (a submarine sim - for those who did not know) and it too has a site. The development of "Silent Hunter II" had a similar history to SE2 (MSTS2 - try to keep up) and when it finally arrived it had some interesting "new" features. Alas it was for me nowhere near as much fun to play. SH lead to 3 add-ons. SHII had none! Even worse the original was a DOS based game and refused to run properly in a DOS
Shell.

Don't be too keen to believe the grass will be greener in the next field.

By the way. Hope we're all wrong. Hope it's (1) Not A Sow's Ear and (2) the routes and stock will all be compatible.

Maybe FS fans could help with how this compatibility problem worked out for them?

I for one would not welcome an "Annual" re-vamp such as FS has had.

Geoff

Speedbird083 · Post by **Speedbird083** » Fri Jan 09, 2004 8:24 pm

lateagain wrote:I used to love "Silent Hunter"

It was always nice to slip into Truk and say hello to the IJN

.

lateagain · Post by **lateagain** » Fri Jan 09, 2004 8:59 pm

Hi Speedbird,

Rather embarrassingly I now have a Japanese neighbour. A really nice guy with a lovely wife and brand new baby son. Rather embarrassing as I used to whoop with joy as I committed yet another virtual ship load of â€œJapsâ€

ForburyLion · Post by **ForburyLion** » Fri Jan 09, 2004 9:11 pm

LucaZone wrote:I heard Microsoft werent going with KUJU's work which means a new game and engine and files and system will be created. Making route conversion impossible.

If what you heard was correct, That doesn't necessarilly mean the second part is.

It's probably possible to create a new game engine that uses objects from another game if that's what MS want to do and to be honest it would be foolish to do what Auran did and suddenly make your latest offering incompatible with every piece of MSTS1 freeware.

Given the choice of a great sim with thousands of items of freeware rolling stock and hundreds of freeware routes over a better sim with 6 routes and 10 locomotives of which only one may be British I don't think I'd be in any rush to buy the sequel. In fact there would be more freeware british items for Railroad Simulator 2004 than a entirely new MS product that was incompatible with MSTS1 stock/routes.

Speedbird083 · Post by **Speedbird083** » Fri Jan 09, 2004 11:55 pm

lateagain wrote:It was a bloody good sim though wasn't it?

Certainly was. Flat-top hunting with a Gato or Tench

.
It gave Sierra's Aces of the Deep a good kicking

, a game which I thought Silent Hunter II mirrored too much, i.e. for all the time that had past (I think Aces of the Deep was circa '94/'95) SSi didn't seem to make the leaps and bounds that have occured in other genres. The Type XXI in SH2 was fun though

.
It's hardly a fast paced sim but toying with/trying to avoid a destroyer was fun, and quite rewarding.

* I felt quite guilty about shooting up the Sampans

.

bigvern · Post by **bigvern** » Sat Jan 10, 2004 8:18 am

Well we still don't know when or even if MTS2 might happen.

If my old routes work, fine - if not then I'll redo them (or at least some of them).

Until we get some official word from MS about the whole thing, it's just speculation. However it is an important issue as I think the lack of information could start to slow down production of add ons. Not much point starting a long route now, slaving away on it for 5 or 6 months to release it in October then find MTS2 comes out in Jan 2005 and it won't work.

As stated elsewhere my policy now is to work on shorter routes (6 - 8 weeks work) until we know more, simply to avoid having wasted time on something that could only have a limited shelf life.

lateagain · Post by **lateagain** » Sat Jan 10, 2004 10:06 am

Hi Vern,

I can see your point about wasted effort and I'm sure that many developers would do their utmost to "update" stuff if necessary. I've already commented in the forums as to how grateful and impressed I am with many "freeware" developers commitment to "honing" their output.

If "SE2" (MSTS2) does prove to be that different it's going to take a few years to get the excellent range of routes and stock that's available now to say nothing of the utilities, track mods etc.etc.

As I said earlier, I for one will not be trashing all that input.

Also Mico$oft's track record shows that each time they release new software they're careless about it running on anything but the latest spec machines. You only have to look at "Office" to see how lazy they are with that. In the years I've been using Word and Excel they may have improved by say 33%, but the spec of machine required to run them has gone up by 330%!!!!

I remember that Flight Sim web sites continued to support a number of versions when M$ was chucking out a new version every year. Of course I'm not clued up enough about the programming implications of FS stuff to know how difficult that was or what the implications were. Maybe someone who knows can comment?

I'm also personally much more interested in some of the upcoming commercial add-ons (New routes and add-ons from MLT, 3DTrains and others) than SE2! At least I know their products have been steadily improving.

Geoff.

bigvern · Post by **bigvern** » Sat Jan 10, 2004 11:20 am

Yes there are still a few commercial routes in the pipeline - IMHO anything that is currently in development or likely to be released in the near future will probably be okay. However I doubt it would be viable to start a fresh project for MTS1 involving major construction to commercial standards as by the time it's likely to be released either, 1. MTS2 will be out or announced or 2. Support for MTS1 may well have dwindled to a hardcore of a few thousand. That means the likely return on a commercial distribution may not even cover the costs or pay much in the way of royalties to the author(s).

Although I'm currently on the "reserve" list so far as commercial work is concerned, I'm applying the same rationale to freeware. Each project is being carefully evaluated so I don't shoot myself in the foot and waste alot of time. After Blackpool Tramway, I may do another short route but by no means certain.

It's true there will be a residual demand for MTS1 stuff but probably not enough to justify ongoing large scale development. Same applies to most programmes certainly from my point of view I have tended to upgrade hardware to play the "new" version, rather than stick with the old. Probably the most extreme example of that was going from a Â£250 Amiga to a Â£1000 PC to play Wing Commander 3 as opposed to WC1. Why have burger when you can be enjoying a steak!

jbilton · Post by **jbilton** » Sat Jan 10, 2004 11:50 am

Hi
Interesting comments in this thread.
However there is still alot of emphises being put on SE2.
IMHO it will not be that big a change..not unless MS change the game engine.(This would require at least 9-12 months development and cannot be kept secret,...well never has in the past)
I'm not a flight simmer,so I cannot be sure...but having seen the latest version at christmas..I thought yeah its better but nothing to get excited about...and that engine is effectivly 6 year only now.
Taking that all on board ,IMHO SE2 will be a minor upgrade with hopefully some of the bugs ironed out and hopefully not many new ones introduced.
Something worth thinking about are the parts of code that Kuju did but MS left out in MSTS1...they could easily put those back...and make a big launch of a "New" product.
MS have a bit of previous for this

ianmacmillan · Post by **ianmacmillan** » Sat Jan 10, 2004 12:11 pm

I agree that we need an upgrade to MSTS 1.

I've just crashed the sim by forgetting to select a loco in explore mode.

Some simple error checking would be easy to add as a patch for this and many other problems. When it does crash perhaps it could tell us why instead of sending to Microsoft.

lateagain · Post by **lateagain** » Sat Jan 10, 2004 12:56 pm

Don't be daft Ian....

......you only paid for it! Why should you get to know!