Toll roads - More freight by rail?

thedarkness · Post by **thedarkness** » Tue Dec 23, 2003 5:33 pm

As we now have our first toll motorway, and many more look set to come, do you reckon this will cause the transfere of alot of road freight, onto the railways?

southcoasttrains · Post by **southcoasttrains** » Tue Dec 23, 2003 6:53 pm

Hell yeah

Bring back the 73's on the southern freight movements

rikfarish · Post by **rikfarish** » Tue Dec 23, 2003 6:55 pm

southcoasttrains wrote:Hell yeah

Bring back the 73's on the southern freight movements

So your not expecting big trains then

slipdigby · Post by **slipdigby** » Tue Dec 23, 2003 6:56 pm

thedarkness wrote:As we now have our first toll motorway, and many more look set to come, do you reckon this will cause the transfere of alot of road freight, onto the railways?

How do you work that out?

Surely any increase of road capacity would lead to railfreight becoming less competitive due to better reliability and speed available via road haulage (at least initially until the "congestion > build roads > more attractive travel option > more car journeys > congestion" effect catches up). The only way that railfreight would become more competitive is if roads that are currently free at point of useage become toll roads in the way of the M6toll. Which is, to say the least not much of a vote winner in the current circumstances*

Slip

* I could witter on about abolishing road tax and imposing tolls instead, but Hollyoaks is on

southcoasttrains · Post by **southcoasttrains** » Tue Dec 23, 2003 7:33 pm

rikfarish wrote:
southcoasttrains wrote:Hell yeah

Bring back the 73's on the southern freight movements
So your not expecting big trains then

Depends where, the Newhaven stone train was quite long sometimes.

Speedbird083 · Post by **Speedbird083** » Tue Dec 23, 2003 7:42 pm

Hauliers will probably just absord the costs incurred into their pricing schemes. What ever the costs are likely to be, it's still highly unlikely that the cost savings (should there be any) of moving loads by rail would outstrip the time and and inconvenience of road/rail transfers.

Should there be a case whereby a RO/RO system arises for lorries and vans nationwide then there may be a case. Is there one? There certainly should be. Christ there was articles regarding intermodal and road/rail connections in The World of Trains and that was early 1990s.
Of course that would require investment. That'll be that binned then.

thedarkness · Post by **thedarkness** » Tue Dec 23, 2003 8:31 pm

Edmund. Rik is trying to point out that the class 73 has 1,600hp on electric, and 600hp on diesel.
A class 66 has 3,300 HP

duncharris · Post by **duncharris** » Tue Dec 23, 2003 9:00 pm

The M6 Toll, also known as the Birmingham Northern "Relief" Road, is a new motorway. The existing M6 remains unchanged. It's been a huge waste of pubilc money, will fail to reduce congestion and bring about destruction of greenbelt land.

On the other hand, what's the credible rail alternative?

slipdigby · Post by **slipdigby** » Tue Dec 23, 2003 10:55 pm

duncharris wrote:The M6 Toll, also known as the Birmingham Northern "Relief" Road, is a new motorway. The existing M6 remains unchanged. It's been a huge waste of pubilc money......

From the Carillion website:

"Apart from an agreed government contribution for widening and improving a common section of the M42, MEL will carry out the project at its own cost and risk without recourse to Government funds or guarantees."

HTH
Slip

nwallace · Post by **nwallace** » Tue Dec 23, 2003 11:26 pm

The cost of the toll for hauliers could easily be cheaper than what they lose having a wagon parked up on the M6.

Niall

jdjonny · Post by **jdjonny** » Wed Dec 24, 2003 12:54 am

thedarkness wrote:Edmund. Rik is trying to point out that the class 73 has 1,600hp on electric, and 600hp on diesel.
A class 66 has 3,300 HP

yeah, but...but.... 73s are better than a ying

sounded suspiciously like a "pro GM" statement

JDJonny

cadet200 · Post by **cadet200** » Wed Dec 24, 2003 1:17 am

this was discussed on talksport tonight. if major railfreight was to return the current yards wouldn't be able to cope.

terrycunliffe · Post by **terrycunliffe** » Wed Dec 24, 2003 9:25 am

And what's all the proposed freight going to run on, then? And what's going to haul it? The UK rail infrastructure has been decimated.... A certain Dr Beeching saw to that, as has the UK locomotive construction industry... successive government policies!
Terry

MichaelGreenhill · Post by **MichaelGreenhill** » Wed Dec 24, 2003 9:57 am

We've got a few tollways in Australia, the most notiable being in Melbourne, because it uses electronic tolling - ie it reads your rego plate, scans that for a member in their system, and then debits your credit card. If you don't have a pass then you get fined.

Personally, I don't think having tollways will make a scrap of difference road - rail compettition.

Post by **martinhodgson** » Wed Dec 24, 2003 10:17 am

MichaelGreenhill wrote:We've got a few tollways in Australia, the most notiable being in Melbourne, because it uses electronic tolling - ie it reads your rego plate, scans that for a member in their system, and then debits your credit card. If you don't have a pass then you get fined.

We have that in Central London - you must pay to drive in. Though apparantly it has worked quite well.

Atomic Systems

Toll roads - More freight by rail?

Toll roads - More freight by rail?

Re: Toll roads - More freight by rail?