Too little, too late?

anamorph · Post by **anamorph** » Sat Dec 13, 2003 11:14 pm

This is ScotRail's latest revenue protection drive.
(Why the barriers were removed in the first place is a mystery)

But, since plats 1,7,10,20 and 21 remain barrierless, the dishonest will
still benefit on the following routes: Bathgate-Newcraighall, North Berwick-Edinburgh, Newcraighall-Dunblane.

Arguably some of the most money spinning routes, so why not install
barriers here also?
http://www.scotrail.co.uk/barriers.htm

nightbeaver911 · Post by **nightbeaver911** » Sat Dec 13, 2003 11:17 pm

The North Berwick line must be a big earner its regulary nice and full when I travel on it when up there. They do have two guards on the serivce or at least busy services so techincally they wouldnt need barriers, which is a nice idea. But doesnt work. Durning evening rush hour when it comes from Haymarket they have people at the top of the steps checking tickets before you can board the train. But barriers are sadly the best way.

anamorph · Post by **anamorph** » Sat Dec 13, 2003 11:38 pm

The point I'm making is this: it shouldn't just be the peak services.
I kid you not. I travel on that route at least once a week off peak, and if I get a ticket check 15% of the time that's a lot. In a month I could count in the hundreds the number of non paying passengers getiing on between intermediate station into Waverley, and that's just on the trains Im on.
remember, in France a single ticket is HALF the fare of a return. the reason our's isn't is because we are paying for the gutter-snipes who don't pay. simple as that...

nightbeaver911 · Post by **nightbeaver911** » Sun Dec 14, 2003 11:05 am

Always wondered why returns are so much cheaper then singles. But its the same on buses when its pretty much impossible to fare dodge unless you get of at a stop further than you have paid for. Only having your ticket checked 15% of the time is disgraceful nowonder TOCs need so much govt. backing. CT made something like 10% (i think) more on its centro services when it installed barriers at New Street.

Yesterday I traveled from Derby to Sheffield on MML in first class and there were at least 5 people who I wouldnt expect to see in first class, did the Guard come down checking tickets. I think not. This is not fair on people who have paid more of the luxary of first only to have to share with noisy people who are getting it for nothing.

nwallace · Post by **nwallace** » Sun Dec 14, 2003 12:44 pm

How can you be sure there are that many people fare dodging?

anamorph · Post by **anamorph** » Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:13 pm

Well If i get on the train along with x number of people, then if a guard
doesn't come round that's how I know. It is of course possible that it's only ever the trains I travel on that this happens, although i doubt it.
Its the same with people getting on the train at Waverley, then buying singles to where they are going (obviously not bought one on the way in).

All you need to do is make two or three train journeys during the week and it's easy to spot.

allypally · Post by **allypally** » Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:23 pm

most of the time theres no one on the barriers at New Street. plus if a train is really full, how could a guard get around anyway?

chriscooper · Post by **chriscooper** » Sun Dec 14, 2003 6:01 pm

Its not suprising they loose so much money with people deliberatly trying to get a free ride when they are so reluctant to take money of people who are prepared to pay. I have quite a few times travelled in first class on standard tickets on MML at weekends, not because I didn't want to pay but because nobody ever bothered to check the tickets and collect the Â£6 upgrade (MML weekend first). I have also had a number of free journeys on routes where tickets have to be purchased on the train yet nobody has come. I do draw the line at trying to find them as if they want my money they can come and get it. I do understand that its hard for them to come around on busy trains but it often happens on quiet trains and the free upgrades have always been on quiet trains. Thats the few times that for whatever reason I've not had a valid ticket though, the number of times I've been on trains and not had my ticket checked, sometimes on fairly long journeys involving more than one train is to many to count. Its tempting to take the tickets back and get a refund just to serve them right, but i couldn't be that dishonest although i expect some people do.

petermakosch · Post by **petermakosch** » Sun Dec 14, 2003 7:18 pm

Thats the way the cookie crumbles though.
I was talking to an american gurl once, she got on at Leeds, and was getting off at BNS. She got to Sheffield okay, without anybody checking her ticket, or more to the fact she didnt have one.

I always think when the Guard has not come round with their pen, or stamp, "Why did i bother?". GRR! I dont think i would get on a train without a ticket anyway, plainly because i cheat them anyway- sometimes. Well, I get a Child Fair sometimes, to be honest, most of the time. I wouldnt be willing to pay the money they ask for some journey on Sub-Standard trains (Usually CT which has been badly vandalised).

I dont know though.
Im off to Cornwall till Friday, I'll probably end up paying the full Â£78.00 odd (return) BUT i will try as a child, as its Â£40.00!- now do you see why its good being small for your age?

john1024 · Post by **john1024** » Sun Dec 14, 2003 9:20 pm

Buying a child ticket when you ain't isn't fare dodging, but it is fraud.

Tomnick · Post by **Tomnick** » Sun Dec 14, 2003 10:59 pm

Far too many people do it and get away with it though - travelling to Lincoln once, a whole group of people who were obviously a long way over 16 all got away with half-fare tickets.

chriscooper · Post by **chriscooper** » Sun Dec 14, 2003 11:29 pm

Had a bit of a laugh on an Anglia Railways train from March to Peterborough in October. A group of lads got on all smoking and put their cigretts out just before they got on the train. When the guard who had seen this from the rear door of the 153 came to ask for their tickets they all asked for half fare. The guard then asked them why they were smoking and how they had got cigretts if they were under 16, or if in fact they were trying to get on as children when over 16. Sadly my phone ran so I didn't find out if they had to pay full fair or not. This is something they try on buses regularly or even more amusingly, getting on with a child in a pushchair and asking for half. That doesn't matter too much though as if the driver is thinking he charges them 2 halves as under 5s only travel free with a full fare passenger

. I've never actually asked for a child fare when over 16 but my mum did when we were travelling together, until I got my YP railcard. I never specifically asked for a full fare though, and never corrected them when I was given a child ticket, including one bus driver who gave me a childs 10 trip pass when a was 19!, although that was sort of my fault as I didn't realise the price had gone up and gave him a fiver instead of Â£6, so he though I wanted a Â£4 child one. I am actually quite honest usually when people make mistakes in my favour but certain companies don't deserve it (bit of "they wouldn't do it for me" philosophy).

jimbob · Post by **jimbob** » Sun Dec 14, 2003 11:54 pm

Yes they did as he said that if they didn't then he would confiscate their fags! I know this guard in question very well!

yorkie2k · Post by **yorkie2k** » Mon Dec 15, 2003 1:07 am

petermakosch wrote:Im off to Cornwall till Friday, I'll probably end up paying the full Â£78.00 odd (return) BUT i will try as a child, as its Â£40.00!- now do you see why its good being small for your age?

Instead of being a fraud, get a Young Persons railcard and you'll pay fares that are not much higher than child fares

I see so many 16/17/18 year olds pretend to be 15, it's so obvious. Just on Saturday 2 people who looked about 18 got child tickets, without being asked for ID or anything. They may get away with it but everyone knows they're a fraud, it's just so obvious.

yorkie2k · Post by **yorkie2k** » Mon Dec 15, 2003 1:19 am

chriscooper wrote:....including one bus driver who gave me a childs 10 trip pass when a was 19!,....

I think bus drivers have a warped sense of ages, because SO many people lie about their ages it's unbelievable and they probably get fed up of asking for ID.

In York you have to have a ID card if you're 14/15 to get a child ticket, however most kids can't be bothered to get one (even though they're free). Even 16 year olds get on as 13 year olds when it's so obvious that they aren't and say they are 13. Surely bus drivers should get suspicious when almost every young person who gets on a bus claims to be 13.

In some other places they are less strict and even offer child tickets to people who are obviously over 16. Cheltenham being one such example.

On one amusing occasion, I was 19 (but looked younger), I was offered a child bus ticket in West Yorkshire but I refused, and a friend of mine who was 15 (but looked older) then asked for a child ticket and the bus driver said "No way!". My friend got out proof of age but the bus driver said "you have to be UNDER 15 to get a child ticket"