Tube workers decided to be a pain in the backside for X mas

FuNky2k · Post by **FuNky2k** » Fri Dec 05, 2003 5:21 pm

Central line drivers must have the same boredom just sitting there pressing buttons...

I have a few mates that work at Ruislip say its alot better, the shift just flys by.

rikfarish · Post by **rikfarish** » Fri Dec 05, 2003 8:27 pm

Just to add my three shillings and six pence worth to this:-

1) If the RMT are calling for their members to go on a "go slow" on safety grounds on specific days, are they not making arses of themselves, in that, if there is a geniuine safety issue, should the staff not being going on a "go slow" ALL the time, not just on specific days?? Sounds like they are being picky and choosy about when using H&S legislation.

2) What are those LUL workers actually being sacked for? Unless they were under the influence or consuming on duty, what have they actually done wrong? OK I appreciate having your own branch of Oddbins in the messroom doesn't look good, but is it actually against the rules and regs?

Rik

seaeagle · Post by **seaeagle** » Fri Dec 05, 2003 11:09 pm

2) What are those LUL workers actually being sacked for? Unless they were under the influence or consuming on duty, what have they actually done wrong? OK I appreciate having your own branch of Oddbins in the messroom doesn't look good, but is it actually against the rules and regs?

Yes it is against the rules for staff to have beer and sprits whilest on LUL premises.

Stooopidperson · Post by **Stooopidperson** » Sat Dec 06, 2003 2:36 am

FuNky2k wrote:Central line drivers must have the same boredom just sitting there pressing buttons... I have a few mates that work at Ruislip say its alot better, the shift just flys by.

But Victoria Line is even worse. It's ATO all the time. But at least they can do manual on Sunday with the Central Line.

seaeagle · Post by **seaeagle** » Sat Dec 06, 2003 9:47 am

But Victoria Line is even worse. It's ATO all the time.

Its not as bad as it sounds, I've been doing it 12 years now, at least I don't have to worry about SPAD's etc. My train goes past a red, it's the trains fault, not mine!

Stooopidperson · Post by **Stooopidperson** » Sat Dec 06, 2003 11:38 am

seaeagle wrote:Its not as bad as it sounds, I've been doing it 12 years now, at least I don't have to worry about SPAD's etc. My train goes past a red, it's the trains fault, not mine!

But you have to worry about opening your doors on the wrong side!

Post by **martinhodgson** » Sat Dec 06, 2003 12:49 pm

It must be really difficult to know which side to open the doors on

Specially with all that driving

TomB · Post by **TomB** » Sat Dec 06, 2003 1:35 pm

Yeah well you couldn't open the wrong doors unless you had CSDE disabled...

Stooopidperson · Post by **Stooopidperson** » Sat Dec 06, 2003 2:43 pm

TomB wrote:Yeah well you couldn't open the wrong doors unless you had CSDE disabled...

Victoria Line doesn't have CSDE. Or maybe it was recently installed then.

FuNky2k · Post by **FuNky2k** » Sat Dec 06, 2003 3:03 pm

Just to add my three shillings and six pence worth to this:-

1) If the RMT are calling for their members to go on a "go slow" on safety grounds on specific days, are they not making arses of themselves, in that, if there is a geniuine safety issue, should the staff not being going on a "go slow" ALL the time, not just on specific days?? Sounds like they are being picky and choosy about when using H&S legislation.

Totally agree, should be go slow all the time, but saying that a go slow on the Met line will improve the service atm.

duncharris · Post by **duncharris** » Sat Dec 06, 2003 5:18 pm

Fodda wrote:I heard on the radio 4 news yesterday that 11 workers had been suspended from work facing dismissal because management couldn't decide who was the guilty party. That was why the union was looking at industrial action. If the guilty are dismissed fine... But how would you like to be summarily sacked from your job just because some idiot broke the rules and didn't own up?

Right. To get people to admit to whodoneit it you need to give them the prisoner's dilemma. http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=& ... 7s+dilemma & http://www.princeton.edu/~mdaniels/PD/PD.html get the names get proof and sack them.

Without proof however, you have to be presumed innocent until proven guilty. There are good ways i.e. blood tests, to detect alcohol that ought to be the main case for the prosecution at any tribunal.

As for trades unions doing a good or a bad job, rarely do they do either extreme, though they must be credited to a certain extent for opposing everything the CBI tries to do/say, they can be their worst enemy at times.

markw · Post by **markw** » Sat Dec 06, 2003 8:23 pm

duncharris wrote:As for trades unions doing a good or a bad job, rarely do they do either extreme, though they must be credited to a certain extent for opposing everything the CBI tries to do/say, they can be their worst enemy at times.

I'm surprised that in your adjudgement of the efficacy of Trades Unions your normally well argued approach has been abandoned in favour of a gross generalisation based on the national media's perception of what a Union does.

I was a Union representative for ten years, and only a very small part of my time was taken up with anything relating to National negotiations or activities. In my time I had to deal with:

Two disciplinary actions, one bought basically because the manager didn't like the "attitude" of my member (dismissed as having no grounds within the disciplinary code) and another for a good reason, but ramped up from a final warning to a dismissal hearing again because the (same) manager didn't like the individual - I got it commuted to a final warning on grounds that full procedure hadn't been followed. I was also involved in three re-organisational changed representing individuals who were being downgraded for no work related reason, just because of a new structure - all women, whilst other men in similar positions were not affected. One individual was placed on a permanent protected salary until she ever decides to leave when the post will be re-advertised at the new salaray grade, one was given a trial ln a new area where there was serious under-resource - and six years on is still there loving every minute of it, and is seen as an important and vital individual although no-one remembers - until I remind them - that the post was resisted by management at the time, and the third individual was again placed in an "experimental post" for six months which was then made permanent - and has since been promoted. Again, Management only wanted to put the individual into a downgraded post and wouldn't consider anything else until I refused to deal with any of the non-controversial changes pending resolution of this problem, by Industrial tribunal if necessary. As for regrades, applications for compassionate leave, sickness and welfare activities, internal bullying cases and preparation and assisting individuals on job descriptions, I've lost count of the number of cases I dealt with. The fact is that most personnel departments couldn't function without either (a) a terrified and bullied workforce ignorant of their rights or (b) a good network of Union reps each with their own copy of the staff agreement who can quickly look up a situation and point personnel in the right direction. This makes up well over 90% of a union branch business, and was often the main reason why I was able to enroll new members - they would see how I and my colleagues on the Branch had handled a problem with another member in their team, realise they could be next (not all managers fully understand what rules they should be applying) and would come knocking on my office door for an application.

Unions are vital to good management-worker relationships and don't let one or two renegade activists, and more importantly a one sided reporting of a situation, give the opposite impression. Most National leaders are only interested in big picture politics which has little relevance to day to day activities and members interests which are more accurately represented by the Branch and branch officials and lay stewards.

seaeagle · Post by **seaeagle** » Sat Dec 06, 2003 11:18 pm

Victoria Line doesn't have CSDE. Or maybe it was recently installed then.

Victoria line trains have not got any type of CSDE installed, nor will the current trains ever have, management said it was a waste of money installing CSDE! Mind the doors now please!!

lateagain · Post by **lateagain** » Sun Dec 07, 2003 9:07 am

Hi Mark

As a Union rep in one form or another for most of my working life I'd like to say that your description of your union activities is pretty much my experience too. The work that unions do in conjunction and co-operation with personnel or "human resources" (H R always smacks of cannon fodder to me?!) is neither "news worthy" nor exciting. It just "oils the wheels" and makes work function for employer and employee.

A strong trade union branch usually means a good relationship between employer and the union, respect for the efforts of the elected officials from the members and a good record of problem solving on behalf of the branch.

If I recruit youngsters today, I do so on the grounds that we can offer help and support to them for any problems they have at work. We're someone to discuss problems with before they become "issues". Our track record is there for them to see.

If, as some of the media still like to portray us, I were preaching "manning the barricades", "the overthrow of Capitalism", "Storming the palace" etc.etc. to recruit...........

They'd laugh at me in disbelief!!!

Trade unions nowadays have a huge emphasis on training. Reps can attend courses where they meet with others from a diverse range of industries to learn about Employment Law, Pensions, Access to work for people with disabilities etc. This is why many employers are happy to have an active union organisation within their company.

The media has caused plenty of damage to the real work of the unions, but then why should we expect better? Their accuracy on most of their reporting is equally poor!

Fact is: Good News don't Sell !!

Geoff

markw · Post by **markw** » Sun Dec 07, 2003 3:04 pm

Looking at my earlier posting it looks as if it was confrontation all the time. It wasn't. As Geoff said there was extensive co-operation between personnel and the branch, to the point we would often have any situation resolved by a quick telephone call before it got any further. And the branch had a better record of job descriptions than Personnel - so they would ring us up for the latest version!

One of the big areas of mutual support was Health and Safety. All departmental stewards were trained as Health and Safety reps (not officers) and we would jointly conduct regular H&S audits - and you would be surprised just how dangerous an office can be, with computer cabling, other tripping hazards and the like.

I actually quite enjoyed being a union rep, probably one of the most worthwhile things I've done over time.