Level crossings...

[Tomnick]

...why can't people use them properly?

Anyone who has ever visited Lincoln will know how busy High Street level crossing is, and how well the signalmen handle the large number of cars and pedestrians.

Now I'm used to going across the crossing and seeing the signalman waiting to lower the barriers, with a car happily blocking the crossing, and people continuing to run across in large crowds even with the alarms sounding. Today, though, I saw something that beats everything...

The Huddersfield train was waiting in Platform 7, and the signalman lowered the barriers and pulled off - and, as normal, there was a short delay while the last few passengers boarded, etc. Eventually, it started to move away, upon which a woman in an incredibly short skirt jumped over the barrier, walked calmly over the crossing (well, sort of wobbled over ) then climbed over the other barrier! The train was quite close to the crossing at the time, and, although only slow moving, the driver was understandably not impressed (he made this quite obvious )

The point is, there is so much that could have gone wrong. The woman didn't seem to look either way to see just how close the train was - if she hadn't been able to climb over the opposite barrier, and had fallen back onto the running line behind; if a heavy freight had been approaching on the Up (nearest to where she started to cross the crossing) line, at line speed; or if she had fallen on the crossing. Admittedly, she seemed to be totally drunk, but that is no excuse

Sorry, had to get that out of the system... these things annoy me!

[thedarkness]

Sorry, had to get that out of the system... these things annoy me!

No, you're quite right. My understanding is, people who pass their driving test, are deemed confident in road signs and markings, and their meaning.
This doesnt stop cars queeing over Cosham level crossing in both directions, despite clear signage that it is a level crossing and to keep clear.
Quite a few people around the country have found out that when it comes to trains verses cars at level crossings, the train wins everytime.

[Tomnick]

The number of road/rail accidents recently in Lincolnshire, and the TV/radio coverage afterwards would surely make people think before being so stupid? To block a level crossing in a car is one thing though, but to climb over the barrier when it is quite clear that there is a train nearly at the crossing is another!

Every day, on the school bus journey home, we pass over an AHB crossing at North Kelsey. A couple of years ago, this crossing failed (in the down position, as it should), and on the other side was a large articulated lorry. After phoning the signalman at Holton-le-Moor, he climbed back into his cab and weaved around the barriers. I can't believe that the signalman would give permission to do this (he's not allowed to in any case), and the lorry only just managed to get round. If he hadn't been able to clear both barriers...the level crossing is on a slight curve, and line speed of 75mph (I think) Our bus did the sensible thing, turning round and going another way (and getting lost )

By the way, I read somewhere that the signalman notes down the registration numbers of all cars blocking High Street Crossing (Lincoln) - anyone know if this is true?

[chriscooper]

I remember reading an article about the signalling around Lincoln some time ago and it saying that although trains were regularly delayed because of people blocking the crossing and when this happenend the signallers were supposed to note down registration numbers of offending vehicles to be passed onto the police the police wern't at all interested. Crsooings at Ely and Oulton Broad (west of lowestoft) are also regularly blocked. Personally I think all public level crossing (not ones on private roads etc) should be fitted with CCTV cameras to monitor what happens. Many are CCTV monitored anyway due to being remotly controlled but I doubt footage is recorded. Although the cost would be high it would be worth it if these idiots got caught, and other knowing they would be caught wouldn't take the risk.

[Tomnick]

An occasional (hidden) police presence - taking action against the idiots - might help. It can't be too difficult to stop a car before a crossing if the other side is blocked (not met railways in driving lessons yet ) - surely!

If a few were prosecuted for being stupid, then others might slow down and think before doing the same...

Lincoln, though, really is a signalman's nightmare. Not only does he have to deal with these idiots in cars, and the crowds of shoppers in the daytime, he has the crowds returning from the pubs at night - who, I'm told, do NOT like being delayed!

[nightbeaver911]

he has the crowds returning from the pubs at night - who, I'm told, do NOT like being delayed!

Like they have anywhere to go!

I hate the whole idea of crossing a crossing when its not 100% safe, the number of tractor/train incidents in Linconshire is amazing! Not only does it close the line inconviencing everyone, it also costs money to put the train right not to mention Central Trains been short of a unit.

[thedarkness]

Every day, on the school bus journey home, we pass over an AHB crossing at North Kelsey. A couple of years ago, this crossing failed (in the down position, as it should), and on the other side was a large articulated lorry. After phoning the signalman at Holton-le-Moor, he climbed back into his cab and weaved around the barriers. I can't believe that the signalman would give permission to do this (he's not allowed to in any case), and the lorry only just managed to get round. If he hadn't been able to clear both barriers...the level crossing is on a slight curve, and line speed of 75mph (I think) Our bus did the sensible thing, turning round and going another way (and getting lost )

If the signalman had CCTV monitoring the crossing, then this manouver was fairly safe, as the signalman would of set all the signals protecting the crossing, to red, and only cleared them once he was satisfied the crossing was clear, in this case, by checking his cctv monitors.

[thedarkness]

I believe that where CCTV is in use on crossings etc, its always recorded, as i remember a recent fatality in the London area where the police used CCTV footage from a level crossing to aid their investigations.

[martinhodgson]

Every day, on the school bus journey home, we pass over an AHB crossing at North Kelsey. A couple of years ago, this crossing failed (in the down position, as it should), and on the other side was a large articulated lorry. After phoning the signalman at Holton-le-Moor, he climbed back into his cab and weaved around the barriers. I can't believe that the signalman would give permission to do this (he's not allowed to in any case), and the lorry only just managed to get round. If he hadn't been able to clear both barriers...the level crossing is on a slight curve, and line speed of 75mph (I think) Our bus did the sensible thing, turning round and going another way (and getting lost )

If the signalman had CCTV monitoring the crossing, then this manouver was fairly safe, as the signalman would of set all the signals protecting the crossing, to red, and only cleared them once he was satisfied the crossing was clear, in this case, by checking his cctv monitors.

All very well, but the signalmen don't always look at the CCTV (and the train may have gone beyond the signal protecting the crossing)- At Hest Bank Level Crossing, the keeper has 2 crossings in his control - one outside his window (Hest Bank Crossing) and one about a mile north (Bolton-Le-Sands) - BLS is on CCTV, and so that is used to lower the barriers. But as Hest Bank is right by the window, the signaller tends to look out there. Plus of course these are trains at up to 110mph we are talking about - changing one signal may not save anyone!

[thedarkness]

Martin and co.
I meant setting the signal to danger when it was safe to do so.
Martin, you should know this causes the signals before it to show caution, so the train should quite rightfully come to a safe stop at the protecting signal.

[martinhodgson]

My point is though that if the signal man noticed as a train was approaching, he'd be able to do nothing - especially as the crossing keeper at Hest Bank has no control of the signals.

[Tomnick]

If the signalman had CCTV monitoring the crossing, then this manouver was fairly safe, as the signalman would of set all the signals protecting the crossing, to red, and only cleared them once he was satisfied the crossing was clear, in this case, by checking his cctv monitors.

That's the problem - this was an AHB crossing: completely automatic, with only a repeater in the signalbox, no CCTV at all and no protecting signals!

On locally controlled (or CCTV) crossings, the protecting signal can't be cleared until the barriers have been lowered and the signalman has checked that the crossing is clear, so, as you say, this would have been fairly safe if this particular crossing had been controlled by a signalman. Still a fairly dumb thing to do though

My point is though that if the signal man noticed as a train was approaching, he'd be able to do nothing - especially as the crossing keeper at Hest Bank has no control of the signals.

Hest Bank? I've been there! We used to know one of the crossing keepers there, so spent a lot of time down there when on holiday . The crossing keeper doesn't actually control the signals, but must release them before Preston can clear them - so is able to replace them to danger simply be cancelling the release.

He also told the story, when the crossing was first upgraded, of the woman who hung her dog's lead over the barrier (thinking it was part of the fence or something) - as soon as the train had passed, the barriers automatically rose - with the dog hanging below...

[ca55ie]

Quite a few people around the country have found out that when it comes to trains verses cars at level crossings, the train wins everytime.

even if you draw, the train wins!
i was watching a program oncewhere a reporter in the usa boarded a train to talk to the driver about cars crossing crossings at red, and believe it or not some plonker overshot one and failed to judge that there was a 2000 tonne train approaching, he got swept half a mile down the track(the train was going 30mph)and when the train finally stopped the driver got out and started swearing at the driver! the thing is, it has happened so much in america the police have just got bored with it and stopped answering calls

grrrrrrrrrrrr!

[southcoasttrains]

If you think Lincoln is a nightmare then your wrong, my dad's box has the busiest level crossing in Europe. With around 18 trains an hour on double track might be hard in the box but the gates are constantly going down and at rush hour you get tailbacks of around a mile building up in both directions. You do get people stop on the level crossing but the best way to stop others is to sound the bells to get the person on the crossing worried and panic and to move out the way.

Automatic crossings don't have CCTV normally and there are no covering signals to block it, usually they're automatic and will show green. AHB's are usually set but track circuit or treddles with tell the barriers a train is approaching also when the train has passed over the crossing.

On manual crossings there is CCTV if there is no signal box around or the signal box is next to the crossing itself. The signaller lets the barriers down and sets the signals from red to green.

[ArrivaTrains]

The Crossing at Castleford in west yorkshire has a hidden cctv camera in the crossing box.

It was used to good effect last year to prosecute an Arriva Bus driver who drove his bus over just as the barriers were starting to lower

You could see on the cctv recording that the red lights were clearly flashing!!

Thanks,

Lee