London-Brighton installation error!!!

danielw2599 · Post by **danielw2599** » Tue Jul 22, 2003 7:27 pm

Hi

Got the London-Brighton route through the post today and started to install it, however about 30 seconds into the installation process i get an error saying "An error occured during copying :%d"

i continue with the install and all seems fine. i get into the game and start off from Victoria but as soon as i get to the first bridge i get another error saying "failed to open texture file routes\LBE\textures\tree2.ace" and i get the dreaded send/dont send message to microcrud

any idears?, is there a patch i can download? and has anyone else had this problem? - - great route from the 50seconds ive seen by the way!

Thanks

Dan

DrkAngel · Post by **DrkAngel** » Tue Jul 22, 2003 7:52 pm

You need to have the default routes installed in order not to get those errors, It clearly states this is a requirement in the manual provided

asalmon · Post by **asalmon** » Tue Jul 22, 2003 9:21 pm

Yep, it does sound as if you are missing the default routes to copy stuff from. I would say run route-riter and let it fix it - but again you need the default routes for that - so bring 'em back and reinstall LBE.

-Alan

alan2 · Post by **alan2** » Tue Jul 22, 2003 10:14 pm

I have to admitt, I made same mistake

But I knew instantly what I'd done.

so I just found several files and copied accross.

Will re-install after I've tried a few activities out

MartinH · Post by **MartinH** » Tue Jul 22, 2003 10:24 pm

Very interesting that you need default files for a commercial route. Isn't this breaking the EULA? Must be mistaken.

Martin

alan2 · Post by **alan2** » Tue Jul 22, 2003 10:29 pm

Martin, It would be breaking EULA if they put the files on the commercial Route

But it fall's within the EULA if you the end user has to install from your own version of the Europe1 route etc.

Now if they had put the Default files on the CD then it would break EULA. So It's just within the bounds. *I guess this has been checked also.

MartinH · Post by **MartinH** » Tue Jul 22, 2003 10:39 pm

Alan

I hope you're right, or there will be a few lawyers getting rich. I'm just a little puzzled that so many commercial teams, e.g Protrain, have gone to all the effort of making new models of everything, unless it's simply because most Kuju models are poor and they don't want them anywhere near their route.

Martin

alan2 · Post by **alan2** » Tue Jul 22, 2003 10:47 pm

I think that Matt P put the legal notice on UKTS Front page, it says you can't distribute Default file but you can use them in the route.

Hence why all UKTS Cd's have to be default file free. So to avoid the Issue of copywright infringements. You can use the files just not distribute them

but there are some freeware files in Msts, eg. Tracktextures. They can't have that as copywright because it's a required file.

*or two.

EuropeanLoco · Post by **EuropeanLoco** » Wed Jul 23, 2003 8:48 am

Gentlemen

It would in fact be wrong to use default files if they where supplied on the actual CD.

But to make use of them by copying from within the user machine is perfectly OK and breaks/infringes nothing.

All files supplied on London Brighton CD are new and do not in any way infringe Copyright.

Hope this clear this misunderstanding up

Ken A

bigvern · Post by **bigvern** » Wed Jul 23, 2003 2:37 pm

We had this discussion some time ago, regarding the Protrain Semmering.

My understanding of the EULA (as explained to me) is that the restriction on use of Kuju default objects extends to "artistic" use within a route whether or not the files are copied across from the existing install or not.

More than that, I'm not going to get involved in this one this time!!

Stooopidperson · Post by **Stooopidperson** » Wed Jul 23, 2003 2:47 pm

bigvern wrote:We had this discussion some time ago, regarding the Protrain Semmering.

My understanding of the EULA (as explained to me) is that the restriction on use of Kuju default objects extends to "artistic" use within a route whether or not the files are copied across from the existing install or not.

More than that, I'm not going to get involved in this one this time!!

I've heard that as well. If the route is payware, then it must not use any of Kuju's objects.
But anyway, where can I find the EULA to confirm this?

Post by **NeutronIC** » Wed Jul 23, 2003 3:24 pm

This argument keeps popping up occasionally so let me sum up, and hopefully nip topic in the bud before people start getting upset.

Neither Kuju or Microsoft will make a statement confirming anyones opinions about the EULA therefore all we have is our own opinions and how we have interpreted the EULA (which is a word document in your train simulator directory).

Suffice to say, Kuju DO have a copy of London Brighton Express and should they have any problem with it's packaging I feel sure that Europeanbahn and Aerosoft will be contacted directly.

As I understand it, the usage of Kuju objects is simply a few tree's and not much besides.

For my own personal understanding I would have read it to say that you can't use anything at all in any form - Ken (and he is not alone) reads it to mean that you simply cannot distribute their work but you can use it.

There are wider implications - it's all very well saying that 'freeware' use is permitted but when you distribute a route on a CD for 4 quid (or whatever) and call it distribution costs, is that still technically freeware, and at what pricing level is it no longer freeware? What about downloads on this site that you pay your 20 quid a year to access, are they technically freeware or are we (UKTrainSim) liable to something because we're charging for unlimited access to the files?

It's a minefield, I have made my own choices and formed opinions based on how I am comfortable with the EULA and how I feel it was intended to be understood, Ken (and others) are doing the same, and it's only Microsoft that can really clarify things. I recently changed policy on our CD's so that all new routes we put out must not contain any default objects on the disc and must copy them - some community members told me I was taking it too far and that *this* was ok for freeware routes too. Where does it end? Freeware doesn't have carte blance to do as it feels, I'm pretty sure of that.

I have tried to email (and about 8 other different ways) a list of questions to Microsoft and got no response so frankly I can only assume they really don't care.

As BigVern has already pointed out in another thread somewhere, Protrain Semmering appears to use default scenic items too.

Let the lawyers and companies with too much money worry about legalities, as end users our time is much better spent worrying about whether we can see lots of default scenery in a route and whether we feel that reduces our enjoyment of the product.

*steps down off soap box*

Matt.

Fodda · Post by **Fodda** » Wed Jul 23, 2003 3:25 pm

The EULA will be on the MSTS installation CDs and also probably on the 2 update files that update MSTS to 1.2.

danielw2599 · Post by **danielw2599** » Wed Jul 23, 2003 4:49 pm

hi

thanks for the replys everybody. it was europe 1 i didn't have but all works perfectly now.

Sorry for starting this debate about the EULA

thanks

bigvern · Post by **bigvern** » Wed Jul 23, 2003 5:33 pm

My own view of this is that the EULA is too restrictive, in some ways. I guess it was worded in such a way because at the outset they didn't want a lot of poor quality routes being sold for Â£40 using objects they (Kuju/MS) had made. As Matt says, it's a minefield. My own Route CD's still go out with the default items included in the installer. However these are only a part not a whole of the default content and would not allow anyone receiving a route CD to put together one of the default routes.

I'm sure MS have far more genuine piracy to track down than how their materials from a 2 year old programme are being used, by people (freeware and commercial) who are ultimately doing it to enhance the appeal of their original product.

Bottom line is you need Europe 1 installed to enjoy London to Brighton!

Let's hope MTS2 is accompanied by a more practical (and comprehensible) EULA.