voyagers, super voyagers and coach shortage...

n863dwt · Post by **n863dwt** » Tue Apr 15, 2003 9:40 am

correct me if im wrong but some of the super voyagers have 4 cars and others have 6...with the ones with 6 cars be split and the extras distributed between the 4 car super voyagers....? or would trhey stay as they are or be put onto the std. voyagers....?

Horgy · Post by **Horgy** » Tue Apr 15, 2003 11:12 am

Super Voyagers can Tilt, and normal Voyagers can't. God knows why they don't have the same amount of carriages though..

Horgy

Kevo00 · Post by **Kevo00** » Tue Apr 15, 2003 12:08 pm

I thought all super voyagers had 5 carrages and the normals 4 - but I could be out of date on that. What is true is that because of the way the carrages are laid out its kind of difficult to move them between sets to lengthen others etc.

n863dwt · Post by **n863dwt** » Tue Apr 15, 2003 12:17 pm

think about this...
a standardf voyager has4 cars
a standard super voyager has 5 cars
a short super voyager has 4 cars
and super voyagers with tests being conducted have 6 cars

go figure....
i mean there must be a reason...........

salopiangrowler · Post by **salopiangrowler** » Tue Apr 15, 2003 11:17 pm

i remember seeing a 6 car one at central rivers near burton would be nice to see in service even though i hate them

Horgy · Post by **Horgy** » Wed Apr 16, 2003 10:15 am

salopiangrowler wrote:i remember seeing a 6 car one at central rivers near burton would be nice to see in service even though i hate them

What ARE your reasons for HATING a new train?

Horgy

spartacus · Post by **spartacus** » Wed Apr 16, 2003 10:48 am

220s were built as 4 car sets.
221s were normally built as 5 car sets. Think some were built as 4 cars though.

BUT, Virgin have realised the only way to get rid of overcrowding is more carriages, so are investing in new ones, which may already be being delivered, hence 6 car sets

slipdigby · Post by **slipdigby** » Wed Apr 16, 2003 2:09 pm

spartacus wrote:220s were built as 4 car sets.
221s were normally built as 5 car sets. Think some were built as 4 cars though.

BUT, Virgin have realised the only way to get rid of overcrowding is more carriages, so are investing in new ones, which may already be being delivered, hence 6 car sets

Nope. No new Voyager carriages till after the Meridian order apparently, if at all (If the SRA get their way)

Slip

yourdomingo · Post by **yourdomingo** » Wed Apr 16, 2003 2:38 pm

no sign of investment, that's for sure.

the only new carraiges i can see the voyagers getting are out of redundant 4CEPs...

salopiangrowler · Post by **salopiangrowler** » Wed Apr 16, 2003 11:09 pm

Horgy wrote:
salopiangrowler wrote:i remember seeing a 6 car one at central rivers near burton would be nice to see in service even though i hate them
What ARE your reasons for HATING a new train?

Horgy

A great Quote "the older, the better"

When the new trains are alot older ill say "well they've earnt there time and did a good job" but until i see the evidence that they are going to last along time there is not much liking them.

you must admit its a nice sight watching a CEP or VEP leaving a london terminus rather than a 375/377 isnt it.

Its the same with women, you'd rather watch an experienced woman on the catwalk rather than some clumsy teeny bop in high heels. If you get me point.

Horgy · Post by **Horgy** » Wed Apr 16, 2003 11:28 pm

salopiangrowler wrote:
Horgy wrote:
salopiangrowler wrote:i remember seeing a 6 car one at central rivers near burton would be nice to see in service even though i hate them
What ARE your reasons for HATING a new train?

Horgy
A great Quote "the older, the better"

When the new trains are alot older ill say "well they've earnt there time and did a good job" but until i see the evidence that they are going to last along time there is not much liking them.

you must admit its a nice sight watching a CEP or VEP leaving a london terminus rather than a 375/377 isnt it.

Its the same with women, you'd rather watch an experienced woman on the catwalk rather than some clumsy teeny bop in high heels. If you get me point.

So by your reasoning, we should attain to be old, decrepid, and perv at OAP's? Sorry thats not my thing

As for CEP / VEP departing, no thats just awful. They bump and throw me around. I came back from Hastings to London Bridge on a 375 and it was so smooth and quiet, I couldn't tell when we left the station or arrived, and I ended up in Charing Cross.

You can't stand in the way of progress. Older things are more difficult and costly to maintain (People, Houses, Trains, etc.) and so eventually they have to be scrapped to make way for new developments. It's no good jumping around and saying the new trains are unreliable, I daresay CEP's were when the were introduced. But when everything works smoothly its so much nicer. Theres nothing fundamentally wrong with a Voyager / Meridian / Electrostar, its when they are mis-managed that problems occur, something we see illustrated by Virgin very well...

Rant over.

Horgy

salopiangrowler · Post by **salopiangrowler** » Wed Apr 16, 2003 11:53 pm

Horgy wrote:
salopiangrowler wrote:
Horgy wrote: What ARE your reasons for HATING a new train?

Horgy
A great Quote "the older, the better"

When the new trains are alot older ill say "well they've earnt there time and did a good job" but until i see the evidence that they are going to last along time there is not much liking them.

you must admit its a nice sight watching a CEP or VEP leaving a london terminus rather than a 375/377 isnt it.

Its the same with women, you'd rather watch an experienced woman on the catwalk rather than some clumsy teeny bop in high heels. If you get me point.
So by your reasoning, we should attain to be old, decrepid, and perv at OAP's? Sorry thats not my thing

As for CEP / VEP departing, no thats just awful. They bump and throw me around. I came back from Hastings to London Bridge on a 375 and it was so smooth and quiet, I couldn't tell when we left the station or arrived, and I ended up in Charing Cross.

You can't stand in the way of progress. Older things are more difficult and costly to maintain (People, Houses, Trains, etc.) and so eventually they have to be scrapped to make way for new developments. It's no good jumping around and saying the new trains are unreliable, I daresay CEP's were when the were introduced. But when everything works smoothly its so much nicer. Theres nothing fundamentally wrong with a Voyager / Meridian / Electrostar, its when they are mis-managed that problems occur, something we see illustrated by Virgin very well...

Rant over.

Horgy

i see you've had ya tupence worth then.

oh well back to trying to go to the SVR to work on 37906 then might hit the southern metals in a couple of weeks.

60037 · Post by **60037** » Thu Apr 17, 2003 11:03 am

220 have 4 cars per set
221 have 5 cars except the last few 221 14x ect as they were meant for WCML/holyhead services.

Hollyhead complained becuase they didnt get the new trains, being left with the HST sets. Personally the rest of us will swap anytime they like!

micksasse · Post by **micksasse** » Thu Apr 17, 2003 11:14 pm

A 6-car Voyager will have 6 separate diesel engines to consume fuel, pollute, and be maintained - and 4,500 bhp! (same as an HST needed for 7 or 8 coaches with only 2 engines). Trebles and cost-plus subsidies all round!

That's just goddam ridiculous and a totally irresponsible waste of energy. No wonder we fight wars for oil...

n863dwt · Post by **n863dwt** » Fri Apr 18, 2003 7:08 am

micksasse wrote:A 6-car Voyager will have 6 separate diesel engines to consume fuel, pollute, and be maintained - and 4,500 bhp! (same as an HST needed for 7 or 8 coaches with only 2 engines). Trebles and cost-plus subsidies all round!

That's just goddam ridiculous and a totally irresponsible waste of energy. No wonder we fight wars for oil...

no they wont have an engine in each carraige....
any new carraiges that virgin add to the voyagers have to be unpowered...something to do wth the computer programming....!