Atomic Systems

OK, some questions on UK operations... (let me know if I can provide US answers

1) What's a typical length of a UK freight train? And how do I tell modern wagons from older ones?

2) From what I see, it looks like most UK diesel and electric locomotives are used interchangeably for either freight or passenger service, is that true?

Thanks!
Aaron

Freight Train lengths in the UK are much shorter then those in the US, generally due to weight limits on bridges, and the more compact nature of British Railways. I willtry to give you an idea of some train lengths.

Coal: can be in lengths of up to 37 HAA type hoppers, up to 24 HTA hoppers.
If you search UKTrainsim for these wagons, or visit http://www.ews.co.uk
or http://www.freightliner.co.uk you will get a good idea of the capacity of these
trains. Intermodal, Waste, Auto Trains can also vary from a few wagons to over 20. The longest train I have heard of recently was hauled by 5 class 66 locos, of 37 engineers wagons.

Any other questions, just ask.

Your question on loco usage is on the spot. Most UK passenger services are now Multiple Unit based, exceptions being charter and relief trains, and Sleeper services. The HST is basically a high speed DMU. The IC225 which has a 6000hp electric loco pushing/pulling 9 coaches and a DVT was invisaged as running in "Freight" mode at night, but has never done so. Almost any loco can pull Freight or passenger, although in practice a Class 55 "deltic" for example was specifically passenger orientated and wasn't used for freight... Locos are usually "Rostered" to specific tasks, but even the Class 66, a primarily freight engine, can haul passenger trains if needed. (In fact, Empty coaching stock is technically a "freight" train. Other types such as Class 37 for example were "general purpose" although as with many other locos, there use on specific trains depended on things like what type of train heating supply they were fitted with and so on.... a freight only version might have no heating supply so wouldn't be used, or it might have steam heating, limiting the type of coach it could pull, and braking is also an issue. (None of this applies to Empty passenger stock tho....

It sounds simplistic but if you are totally in the dark, the bigger wagons are generally the more modern. Short (9ft - 10ft) wheelbase 4-wheeled wagons went out of use in the late 1960s early 1970s.

Freight-only locomotives in this country are classes: 66, 60, 59, 58, 56, 25, 20, and probably more. Some others can be used for passenger services, but very rarely are (like the 92).

Passenger-only are the class 87 (nowadays), 89, 91, and class 43 (obviously).

A Class 43 HST did once carry freight, as this pic proves. However, operations like this are VERY VERY rare!



Thanks to 'SouthCoastTrains' for the photo.

I think that was a manipluated photo.

Yeah, that pic appeared in The Railway Magazine, an article on Digital Photography, the photographer took a photo of a freight train and then an MML HST and merged them to create that.

Are any 25s operated now? I doubt it. Anyway, while in BR service they were a mixed traffic loco. Even 20s were used a surprising amout on passenger work.

I was trying to cover older trains aswell. I'd seen a few pictures of 20/25's on passenger service, but I'm thinking freight in terms of "doesn't have eth".

(tempted to rant about old locos without ETH designed for pax + express duties............. cant be assed! )

heres a list

class
08 shunter (yard switcher) can be see with passenger TOC's aswell
09 as above
20 Bo - Bo (4 wheel trucks each end) single cab loco see country wide in pairs on freight main operator now is DRS English electric 12Csvt

25 Bo - Bo small mixed traffic engine last used in the mid eighties last used was "tamworth castle" on a charter train in 1989 Sulzer type 2 operators BR

26 as 25's used in scotland BR and TransrailUK

30 mixed traffic AIA - AIA (6 wheel trucks each end) Mirrlees powered
31 as 30 but powered by an english electric 12Csvt engine operators Fragonset

33/0 BRCW Bo - Bo Sulzer type 2 mixed traffic mainly southern region operator now DRS and fragonset
33/1 as 33/0 fitted with ETH and push pull equipment for Weymouth quay mainly passenger but occasional freight operators fragonset
33/2 as 33/0 built with slimline body for work on asford hastings line operator now DRS
33/3 one off experimental loco to test DVT equipment, engineless

37 Co - Co (6 wheel trucks each end) 12CSVT EE power unit mixed traffic loco operators EWS, DRS, IRL, HNRC, Fragonset, EPS, CR.

37901 - 904 as 37 powered by Mirrlees blackstone engines last operators were transrail

37905 - 906 as above powered be rushton vulcan engines

40 I - Co - Co - I (8 wheel trucks each end) mixed traffic loco built for express passenger and freight powered by 12CVST engines last operators BR

45 as 40 but a sulzer type 4
46 as 45 uprated power unit

47 Co - Co Sulzer type 4 mixed freight operators CR, DRS, EWS, Fragonset, FLT, FGW, HNRC, Locotech (derby), VT, WC.

50 Co - Co EE 12SCVT type 4 mixed traffic last operator NSE operator now Fragonset, The fifty fund.

52 Co - Co type 5 twin engine Maybac power unit mainly passenger
last operator GWR and BR
55 Co - Co type 5 twin engine EE Napier marines exclusiely passenger only last operator BR

56 Co-Co Rushton paxman exclusive freight loco operator EWS

57 as 47 rebuilt with Gm JT 42 power unit operator FLT

58 as 56 built with easy access side door panels EWS

59 GM JT42 operator ARC, FY, EWS

60 Co-Co mirrlees Blackstone freight only operator EWS

66 as 59 updated equipment operator EWS, FLT, GBRf

67 Bo-Bo GM parcels locos operator EWS

73 Bo-Bo Diesel/Electrics mixed traffic fitted with 4 cylinder EE engine and 650hp operator EWS

85 Bo-Bo AC electric mixed traffic last operator BR

86 as 85 operator Anglia, EWS, FLT, VT

87 as 86 passenger only, operator virgin

89 Co-Co on off for ECML last operator GNER

90 operator EWS FLT and VT

91 operator GNER passenger only

92 Co-Co freight only operator EPS, EWS

i hope this isnt too much but this is what i know apologies if some are wrong but its to my best knowledge.

Woah! Lots of info to keep me going, thanks guys!

Now if I can just figure out which line is which... southern... northern... etc.

Oh, and 1 thing, trains in Britain are uncommonly hauled by two engines, and as-good-as-never (not since the 80's? steel trains?) are trains hauled by 3 loco's.

Chris

Try http://www.therailwaycentre.com/ for just about anything!

Think triple headed 20s may have been used at some point on the CTRL, but not totally sure. You're most likely to see three locos together when either one or two have failed in sevice. Last year saw a WCML set with a 90 on one end and an 86 and a 47 on the other, inc the DVT! Other then that, there are the odd stock movement which might include three locos, or something heading to the scap yard!

Oh, and 1 thing, trains in Britain are uncommonly hauled by two engines, and as-good-as-never (not since the 80's? steel trains?) are trains hauled by 3 loco's.

Apart from DRS who seem to run their locos in pairs, especially the 20's and 33's