what is a train based as if its code is in 500's, eg class 508?
100 is DMU (eg 101, 142)
200 is DEMU (eg 220,201)
300 is EMU (eg 313,323)
400 is third rail (eg 412,421)
500 is ?????? (eg 508)
Cheers,
James.
The 5th class
Moderator: Moderators
Bit of a strange one - I think originally the 4xx series were Southern 3rd rail DC and 5xx series were everything else dc - so Manchester-Hadfield overhead 1500v dc units were 506's, ex LMS Merseyside 3rd rail units 502/3, North London line 3rd rail units 501 and the Manchester 1200v third rail dc units 504.
There is of course one linking theme here - they are all former LMR lines (even the Woodhead 506's were transferred to the LMR) so I wonder if that is it? DC North of London - 5xx. DC South of London 4xx?
Dual voltage 25kv/dc units are always given a number in the AC series as they are primarily designed as 25kv units with the capability of being fed from a third rail.
There is of course one linking theme here - they are all former LMR lines (even the Woodhead 506's were transferred to the LMR) so I wonder if that is it? DC North of London - 5xx. DC South of London 4xx?
Dual voltage 25kv/dc units are always given a number in the AC series as they are primarily designed as 25kv units with the capability of being fed from a third rail.
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salopiangrowler
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the 500 series were originally southern but moved to the north ie the 501's Newcastle, 504's Manchester, 506's Manchester, 507's and 508's Liverpool and london* (*moved down recently)
The 501's split up and became luggage vans (Thameslink) Battery units (merseyrail) and up until a few months ago i think they were shunters at St leonards. Remeber the one in the Newcastle shirt colours
The 501's split up and became luggage vans (Thameslink) Battery units (merseyrail) and up until a few months ago i think they were shunters at St leonards. Remeber the one in the Newcastle shirt colours
Erm - not quite.salopiangrowler wrote:the 500 series were originally southern but moved to the north ie the 501's Newcastle, 504's Manchester, 506's Manchester, 507's and 508's Liverpool and london* (*moved down recently)
The 501's split up and became luggage vans (Thameslink) Battery units (merseyrail) and up until a few months ago i think they were shunters at St leonards. Remeber the one in the Newcastle shirt colours
The 501's were specifically built by Eastleigh for the Watford-Euston-Broad St services in 1957 as three car units. They had 57 ft underframes instead of the Southern norm of 64 ft, and also had bars on the windows due to Hampstead Tunnel width restrictions. The Tyneside units you refer to were based on the 2 EPB design and when the Tyneside services were de-electrified in January 1963 they moved to the Southern and eventually became class 416/2. They never had a class code in Tyneside being before TOPS.
The 504 were side contact third rail units working Manchester-Bury as 2 car sets. They had a similar front end to class 304/5/8 units and worked on the wierd Lancashire and Yorkshire 1200v dc side contact rail, but were otherwise identical in layout and fittings to the 304/305/308 25kv units.
The 506 units were designed by the LNER for both Liverpool St-Shenfield and Manchester-Glossop services but were built by BR. The Eastern sets were converted from 1500vdc to 25kv ac when they became 306, one of which is preserved by FGE. Had they not been converted before the TOPS numbering came in, I suspect they too would have been 506/1 and the Manchester sets 506/2.
The 507 and 508 sets are interesting. They were designed from the PEP train and the 507 were designed to replace the LMS pre-war sliding door stock on Merseyrail, which had just had the underground section built in the city centre. The 508 were intended to replace the rest of the fleet, but were diverted to the Southern for a few years and were built as four car units. Eventually they moved up north as three car units when the Southern got the 455 units. The clue is there - they were designated 508, but their built for the Southern replacements were 455 units. If they weren't intended for Merseyside why give them a 5xx designation?
The 501 units did become Sandite / Battery units for a while in Merseyside but the Newcastle liveried unit was one of the 2 EPB trailers preserved at Coventry, having been ex-Tyneside before going south. However the 501's never ventured onto the Southern in regular service except on Broad St-Richmond workings.
All 5xx units are DC powered and were designed for routes outside the former Southern. I'm pretty certain that's the explanation. Even the Waterloo and City stock was designated 487 and the Isle of Wight 1923 stock was 485 and 486!
