Atomic Systems

carlwestwood wrote:I'm still waiting for Making Tracks' Class 170 Pack which was announced how many years ago?

If you can remember it being announced then you have a good memory !
It was a long longtime ago.
All the models were finished at the time, but splitting the packs up got confusing and then time ran away.

Not for the 1st time for MT, the product has been so delayed that the model is actually out of date now, which is something that happened to the 150/1's so the new 150/1 pack features different models to the original 150/2 pack.

MT have as many have noticed not released anything this year until the last few weeks where we are trying to catch up a bit.

Hi Dave Gald to see the MT is still intending to produce product. Keeping MSTS alive . . Season Greeting to you Dave and all at MT

Ken A

Id be interested in this but not so sure about being able to Just download it. Prefer to have hard copies myself so if Thats the case then Il leave it. My problem is that compared to other developers the routes Dont compare. I understand it takes alot of effort to make the routes and am by no means ungrateful but if MT had made the routes aswell as eb then i know which one id have chose. Eb use too many of the same items to populate a route and after a while you lose the realism. Id have to see a big increase.in detail for me to purchase these. Eb feels.somewhat more arcady then some of the other developers.

Yes i think the price is a bit steep but thats life. Price it as you feel necessary. But bear in mind that unless the route is of much better detail then the last routes you wont be getting many purchases as i think alot.of people feel a bit let down with Whats been produced so far. I must admit Ive bought things like south coast more just because of the route as there's no alternative but i think morrow realism needs to go into the routes. For.instance on south coast there was no suburban stock or.activities or gatwick express etc. On the plus side Wce was great but then again Whats with all the trees lol.

I Dont want to sound ungrateful as Im truly not but i think its time Eb up there game and compete with MT as there routes in terms of detail win hands down. Its good to here your still running though.

The thing is at least EB have said they are going to make some new routes there is not a peep out of MT making more routes,the only thing is they have started to release some new stock,but no sign of the 170 or 158 that were announced.

mikespearce wrote:Id be interested in this but not so sure about being able to Just download it. Prefer to have hard copies myself so if Thats the case then Il leave it. My problem is that compared to other developers the routes Dont compare. I understand it takes alot of effort to make the routes and am by no means ungrateful but if MT had made the routes aswell as eb then i know which one id have chose. Eb use too many of the same items to populate a route and after a while you lose the realism. Id have to see a big increase.in detail for me to purchase these. Eb feels.somewhat more arcady then some of the other developers.

Yes i think the price is a bit steep but thats life. Price it as you feel necessary. But bear in mind that unless the route is of much better detail then the last routes you wont be getting many purchases as i think alot.of people feel a bit let down with Whats been produced so far. I must admit Ive bought things like south coast more just because of the route as there's no alternative but i think morrow realism needs to go into the routes. For.instance on south coast there was no suburban stock or.activities or gatwick express etc. On the plus side Wce was great but then again Whats with all the trees lol.

I Dont want to sound ungrateful as Im truly not but i think its time Eb up there game and compete with MT as there routes in terms of detail win hands down. Its good to here your still running though.

Hi Mike Like with every discussion, you are entitled to an opinion, but it must be taken in context, “it is just that, an opinion!” I have never understood why MT does what they do, and you will need to ask them what motivate them.

From the beginning EB has never made it a secret why we do what we do and why we do it. Most of our followers, as I understand it, do not frequent these forums, finding then very stressful places to hang out. I certainly do, but I am determined to get our point across, particular as it was I who created this thread.

We have learnt a good deal, from the many and very different point raised and aired here. But, you know, it changes nothing, we are not prepared to work for nothing, you say we will have to up our games, well, then Mike I suggest more detail takes extra development time, and that cost money, MT may produce in your word better, but they admit they are part time and general approach fits the business model of UKTS, but what they do not offer is variety, something EB has always offered.

I am disappointed that you feel we do not offer value for money, many other do, but we have been quite successful doing things the way we do it and will continue . . . sorry you will NOT be joining EB future, but your point have been noted, which we thanks you for, I wish you a great New Year in 2012.

Ken A

I wouldn't say its not value for money as i like the thinking being Eb and the routes they make but maybe just getting rid of the trees would make it better and replace them with more suitable objects. Ive jade many hours on them but just things like the track and object population is somewhat more realistic on MT. Please Dont think Im trying to put Eb down as i do enjoy the routes i just think more realism would be better and more variety of realistic stock and activities for the routes. Im not ruling myself out i just prefer a hard copy and would be reluctant to spend money on something which i can't hold in my hand. I think extending the ece is a good idea and would keep msts alive and keep the interest high. I think if you nail the issues that have been mentioned then your in for a good run

mikespearce wrote:I wouldn't say its not value for money as i like the thinking being Eb and the routes they make but maybe just getting rid of the trees would make it better and replace them with more suitable objects. Ive jade many hours on them but just things like the track and object population is somewhat more realistic on MT. Please Dont think Im trying to put Eb down as i do enjoy the routes i just think more realism would be better and more variety of realistic stock and activities for the routes. Im not ruling myself out i just prefer a hard copy and would be reluctant to spend money on something which i can't hold in my hand. I think extending the ece is a good idea and would keep msts alive and keep the interest high. I think if you nail the issues that have been mentioned then your in for a good run

Once again Mike, some excellent point, and maybe I have misread your original points. Very please you do see the basis business model, relating to a return that at least makes it worth continuing. I wonder if anyone has sat back and consider the reason MT are not producing routes, which is an area I do consider myself quite expert (having produced in excess of 15 main-stream packs). Routes are without doubt, of all MSTS functions the most demanding, in both time and effort. Rolling stock, activities, and even graphics take up much less effort. So that being accepted, producing Rolling stock and activities pack are far more profitable, which may explain why there are many more of those type of products around.

However, I will commit to ensure we use fewer trees to achieve a populated effect, but if you are asking for more dedicated models of building and local feature, we will give it some consideration.

Hi,

mikespearce wrote: i just prefer a hard copy and would be reluctant to spend money on something which i can't hold in my hand.

There's nothing stopping you from downloading the file, then saving it to a CD or DVD
OK, so disks you burn at home may not be as permanent as ROMs, but I've got some I did 5 years ago, which still load OK; then again, you've still got the original on your hard drive - which is backed up isn't it

Cheers,
Ged

EuropeanLoco wrote:Hi Dave Gald to see the MT is still intending to produce product. Keeping MSTS alive . . Season Greeting to you Dave and all at MT

Ken A

Seasons Greeting to you Ken also.

To be fair MT have never dropped MSTS for any other simulator, or announced any withdrawl from the market place.
We've been true to our customers and have carried on developing for MSTS, (although at a slower rate than before). It IS just 12 months since our last route release Great Eastern 2.
The MT team have also built NWC and NWC 2 in the last 2 years or so. So we have been busy.

My hard drives are littered with the contents of stock packs in various degrees of completeness. The detail level of some of the new stock is much much higher than its predecessors as its all being built now with Open Rails in mind. As such it might struggle to run on middle of the road MSTS set ups. I have Multiple Units which are basically nothing more than a MK1 coach which now come in at over 12000 polys per car, the original HST was 3000 polys.

The reason that MT has not announced any new routes, with the state of the MSTS market now I don't personally beleive that its worth starting any new routes at this time, the development time for a decent length and high quality route is just too long to risk it for what is a sim that has to be considered to be in its twilight years. A year down line you might find all interest has moved to something else. Other like EB clearly feel differently.
Once Open Rails reaches version 1 I think that all bets are off and MT will be strongly considering at least one route which we can use to show off our abilities without being constrained by the base sim, which is something we've been battling with for years. For instance, in GE2 there are brand new custom built level crossing barriers, it took about a year to make these low enough detail to work in MSTS, I for one will be glad when my creativeness is not limited by what the sim can handle.
Stockpacks ARE without doubt a much simpler and quicker product to produce, but I still hang on the idea of producing an outstanding route being good for our reputation. It is just hard to justify the amout of work and cost for the kind of sales that MSTS generates these days. I have in the past considered moving MT towards a stockpack only product line. Looking at some freeware routes, sometimes I wonder if we should leave them to it, things like Dorset Coast have proved most popular and cover an area that I think we'd struggle to compete with size wise. But I think a set of stock packs providing excellent stock for Dorset Coast would have a very popular product should we have ever done it.

While EB certainly have released a large number of routes I would hesitate to agree that MT do not also offer "variety".
We have released 7 retail routes plus Springfield our freeware fictional route (plus built 2 more for charity). I don't think 10 routes of the quality we work towards is an amount to be sniffed at either. It's not only about quantity.
We'd released or built a 3rd Rail route, An OHL modern route, a steam branch line, a large part of the Irish Network, a fictional route, a Scottish diesel route and a significant part of Wales.
Our stock packs cover current day multiple units. Wagon. Classic and recent Locos, even down to Shunters. We don't cover every possible era and interest, but I think we've spread our product range over a reasonable period.

I'd only buy the next versions if the 1-3 were packaged up into one pack for around £15. I also much prefer TS 2012, because MSTS is a decade old now.

You guys should try RailWorks for route building, if you don't like it, fair enough, continue with MSTS. But the current price for MSTS addons from EB is too high for what is now a old simultor.

buffy500 wrote:Stockpacks ARE without doubt a much simpler and quicker product to produce.

Dave really glad we agree that route development is more intense than rolling stock & activities. Yes, I did have a few doubts about MSTS, but un-like some the alternative out there, I have not been convinced to make the change.

Anyway, we (EB)do intend to continue with TS for the foreseeable future, as does it seem you are.

michaeldono wrote:I'd only buy the next versions if the 1-3 were packaged up into one pack for around £15. I also much prefer TS 2012, because MSTS is a decade old now.

You guys should try RailWorks for route building, if you don't like it, fair enough, continue with MSTS. But the current price for MSTS addons from EB is too high for what is now a old simultor.

Once again I grateful for another point of view, but like I said above, I have not been convinced to make the change you are suggesting or indeed work day and night for such a small return. But thank you for your comments !