HST 2 - Views and Opinions!

General MSTS related discussion that doesn't really fit into any of the other specific forums.

Moderator: Moderators

User avatar
megatron
Well Established Forum Member
Posts: 587
Joined: Sat Mar 02, 2002 12:00 am
Location: Cybertron, well Chorley Lancashire :)

HST 2 - Views and Opinions!

Post by megatron »

Ok im attempting to start a big debat here :D

Im sorry in advance for my bad spelling but its late!!!

Ok, so with the current problems with the new Class 220/1 Voyager DEMU's on Virgin Crosscountry and the aging HST fleet, the idea of a HST 2 has been touted a number of times.
I for one have quite strong views about what exactly any proper replacement of the HST should be and what it should incorperate in its design.
Basically im curious what other people think we need as a HST 2!

So here i go! My opinions! (dont forget, its opinions!)

HST 2 needs:

- 2 diesel power cars, similar to the current HST power cars, but i assume with modern engineering a more powerful engine could be developed at the same weight as the original. This of course means failure does not automatically mean the train must be cancelled and acceleration will be lively! Also the top speed should be 125mph. No tilt as thats just another thing to go wrong!!! and in my opinion its pointless unless its going to cut 45mins+ off journey times!!!

- a minimum of 8 non-powered coaches (a MK5 coach if you will!). On crosscountry routes the train should consist of one 1st class/buffet car and then 7 standard class coaches ( im guessing about 450 SC seats). These coaches should be air conditioned, have the at seat audio entertainment as the voyagers do, the LCD displayes now common in modern units, have a good mix of tables and airline seats (a 50-50 mix would be ideal), have wide deep and solid shelved luggage racks (similar to the current MK2&MK3 luggage racks) with one at either end of the coach and one in the centre. Also the odd openable window to let fresh air in (i for one feel claustraphobic on voyagers when it gets warm because of the lack of airflow).
All seating should be spaced to give adequate legroom for a 6foot tall person at the minimum, with a few seats giving more legroom for those who are very tall or disabled.
Good deep above head racks (same as the current mk3's :) ) are required too so that the majority of soft items can be comfortably fitted in.
Tables should be solid and hardwearing and actually provide useful working space for TWO people sitting opposite (many modern tables are too narrow for two people to use it opposite each other!)
The ride should be quiet and firm (like the mk3's, but in my opinion these are slighty too bouncy).
Also a working electronic reservation system would be a bonus. Although the displays should be larger and much clearer than on the voyager.
The power points on the voyager should too be adapted.

- Electronic systems should only be used were it provides a real and reliable alternative to manual or mechanical activites. There is a huge overuse in modern day life of computer technology. So many modern day train failures are related to computer software problems. Did the original HST have any computer equipment on it? how many years of reliable service has it given?!

- the HST 2 should have a prototype (just like the original!) which is thouroughly tested and certified before production commences. Hopefully this will help to ensure smooth and painless delivery of the fleet.

- it should be standard to all TOC's just as the original HST is. This would mean maintinance would be easier and a perminant devoted specialised crew of engineers could be employeed so as to ensure the fleet is kept up to scratch.

Im no technical wizard but those are my views on what i would like to see become the backbone of our long distance railway network.
Im sure ive missed plenty of points out and many people will disagree or develop the above points, but thats why i started this thread!!!

All in all, keep it simple, dont try and revolutionise rail travel, just evolve the original HST into a modern day equivilent which will get from A to B without giving customers anything to moan about.
I for one would rather get from A to B comfotably in a basic HST than in a fancy voyager that fails or plays up or even worse is packed beyond all belief :(

Cheers
Guy
The Menacle Megatron
Image
Blue & White for all of eternity!
User avatar
danielwilkieuk
Strathclyder
Posts: 833
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2001 12:00 am
Location: Glasgow, UK

Post by danielwilkieuk »

They should all carry a container full of spare parts and a machanic to fit them. He should be trained to Formula 1 style speed.

How about a second engine in the locos - Not used for main line working but for shunting work. And for when the pile of . fails. This can be turned on and beable to pull the train at a steady 20ish miles an hour to get it somewhere, Better than sitting in the middle of no where.

Have a service like the airlines - onboard movie (coin operated) at seat meals for long hauls (FREE!) (And how about a duty free shop at each station to go with that?)

Better access - No Steps on to train, Either make trains lower or make platforms higher (Simple realy!)

Airconditioning and all other functions powered from a seperate small engine. Not main loco engine so does not effect performance

Most of all - Low pollution out of it! for the euro boys
--------------------------
I have finaly found my way back home...

Daniel
DanielW@Nildram.co.uk
User avatar
60085
Very Active Forum Member
Posts: 2401
Joined: Sun Nov 24, 2002 6:54 pm
Location: Tyne & Wear
Contact:

Post by 60085 »

I think replicatign the 1970's programme would do just fine. 125 mph units, brand new off the production line would coause quite a stir, that is, if the stupid bloody operating companies would allow them to run at such speeds/timetables.

I frankly don't know why any of the franchises are botheing to invest in new rolling stock. Regardless how fast they can run, they usually run below the line limit, are late and want to cut schedules and increase costs.
I say bollox tooo it, force the franchises to sell to the government at a set price and nationalise the whole system. Look at SNCF, SNCB amd DB fo what can be achieved with a well ran state railway.


60085 "MANNA".
<img src="http://vatsim.pilotmedia.fi/statusindic ... ator=BAV01" alt="My Current VATSIM Status">
User avatar
crosscountry
Well Established Forum Member
Posts: 539
Joined: Wed Dec 26, 2001 12:00 am

Post by crosscountry »

Hmmm...

HST2...longer...or less first class...seats that line up with windows/all tabled.

I don't like air con...much prefer openable windows...but not at 125mph!!!!

Something that doesn't break down and can accelerate to keep delays to a minimum.

If Network Fail/Notwork Rail (any more puns greatfully accepted) stop pissing about and make the network work then maybe it would be worth having new trains.

Incidentally I don't see whats wrong with Voyagers. Half of them appear to be empty when I travel...I presume everyone else is on the train in front. They are being modified to cope with Dawlish and although there are some shortages at the moment I recon It'll settle out.

Problem is that over a network the size of XC there is always something unpredicatable going to happen...like an Arriva 158 conking out infront of you twice,delaying the train for 2 hours and making you miss work.

HST2 is great for FGW, GNER etc... Voyager can work though

If Virgin spies are reading
Here's the plan....

1. Cut services back to a sensible level (thereby cutting the number of sets required)
2. Reform sets from redundant coaching stock...ie...a fleet of 25 6 car 221's and say 20 5 car 220's. This would involve ordering only 10 or so extra coaches...
3. Cut Club Class coach in half to give just as many seats as on old loco haul sets.
4. Then there would be spare DMFO's or SO's which could be kept in reserve.
5. Make me boss of everything

That just about sums it up...except....STOP WHINGING ABOUT RE-NATIONALISATION...god damn you people get my goat....IT ISN'T THE 1970's anymore...and the sooner you lot and the sodding trade unions realise this the sooner we can get on with running the country right.

I'm fed up with bloody trade unionists ringing up mouthing off about how I should write more about how everything should be nationalised.

Well...Here's something I'm not going to put in a newspaper. The sooner the government realises that the best use for John Prescott is clogging up the fat mouths of idiots like Andy Gilchrist and Bob Crow the bloody better.
These people are dinosaurs...especially Crow...who see the 1970's through rose tinted glasses...mainly 'cos they were never bloody well at work then...

RE-NATIONALISATION is the worst thing that could ever happen...can nobody see this???? Can nobody remember what it was like before privatsiation???? God....you people!!!
This post is worth what you paid for it.
NickCollier
Mr New southern railway
Posts: 1490
Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2002 12:00 am

Post by NickCollier »

Im 6ft 2 im not disabled :roll:
Like the seating comment
User avatar
megatron
Well Established Forum Member
Posts: 587
Joined: Sat Mar 02, 2002 12:00 am
Location: Cybertron, well Chorley Lancashire :)

Post by megatron »

um when did anyone mention re-nationalisation?!
The Menacle Megatron
Image
Blue & White for all of eternity!
User avatar
qzdcg8
Woodhead Route Author
Posts: 3768
Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2001 12:00 am
Location: Manchester/London
Contact:

Post by qzdcg8 »

2 hours 9 minutes from Euston to Manchester Piccadilly! Whats wrong with the Pendolino's?

I have to say its a bit sad they've only shaved 21 minutes off what it used to take me in the 70's to get between the cities.
Steve N
Retired Modeller and Route Builder - now playing with big boys toys!
Image
User avatar
buffy500
Mr DMU
Posts: 6794
Joined: Mon Dec 03, 2001 12:00 am
Location: Getting on all the right people's nerves !
Contact:

Post by buffy500 »

60085 wrote:I say bollox tooo it, force the franchises to sell to the government at a set price and nationalise the whole system. Look at SNCF, SNCB amd DB fo what can be achieved with a well ran state railway.


60085 "MANNA".
Image
User avatar
ianm42
Very Active Forum Member
Posts: 2749
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2001 12:00 am
Location: Basingstoke, UK
Contact:

Post by ianm42 »

DB isn't state run any more.
User avatar
ForburyLion
Very Active Forum Member
Posts: 1225
Joined: Fri Jun 14, 2002 7:30 pm
Location: Reading

Post by ForburyLion »

What about having dual cab engines at either end which can work in multiple via cables run though a the rake of coaches.

The dual cab engines could in theory also be used as stand alone loco's on shorter service requiring less power with a DVT at the other end.

By dual cab I don't mean a class 91 style flat slab... I want to see proper dual cabed loco's.

I'm picturing a rake of Mk3 type class with class 67 sized loco's at either end working in multiple.
User avatar
johndibben
Bletchley Park:home of first programmable computer
Posts: 14007
Joined: Mon Dec 03, 2001 12:00 am
Location: Bletchley

Post by johndibben »

ForburyLion wrote:What about having dual cab engines at either end which can work in multiple via cables run though a the rake of coaches.

The dual cab engines could in theory also be used as stand alone loco's on shorter service requiring less power with a DVT at the other end.

By dual cab I don't mean a class 91 style flat slab... I want to see proper dual cabed loco's.

I'm picturing a rake of Mk3 type class with class 67 sized loco's at either end working in multiple.
Brilliant idea 8)

2 x 67 (or equivalant), push-pull mode fitted. Loose formation Mk4 type stock. Plus a few driving trailers.

More expensive but enormous versatility.

Fixed formation stock above above 4 cars is wasteful except on routes with a frequent service and a large volume of passengers over an 18 hour period.

Another bonus is that in MSTS there could be a little shunting at main stations :wink: 8)
Cheers

John
User avatar
saddletank
Very Active Forum Member
Posts: 14183
Joined: Mon Dec 03, 2001 12:00 am
Location: UK East Midlands

Post by saddletank »

johndibben wrote:Another bonus is that in MSTS there could be a little shunting at main stations :wink: 8)
:rofl: In years to come when the young 'uns on here are running the railways they'll be designing services that make good MSTS activities. :D 8)
Martin
_______________________________________
ED209: "Please put down your weapon. You have 20 seconds to comply."
User avatar
johndibben
Bletchley Park:home of first programmable computer
Posts: 14007
Joined: Mon Dec 03, 2001 12:00 am
Location: Bletchley

Post by johndibben »

These youg 'uns don't know the fun that can be had when your train stopped at Bristol Temple Meads for 10 minutes (for you to wander around the station) and return to find half the train, your hat and coat, whisked off to Malago Vale carriage sidings :wink: :lol:
Cheers

John
User avatar
tubemad
Very Active Forum Member
Posts: 2368
Joined: Wed Aug 07, 2002 4:06 pm
Location: Trowbridge, Wiltshire

Post by tubemad »

yeah keep yhe 'screamer' paxman sound, i love it!
User avatar
martinhodgson
Nowt to brag about, but still want to look flashy!
Posts: 13922
Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2002 12:00 am
Location: Manchester
Contact:

Post by martinhodgson »

It's a memory fixed on my mind...

I went to stay with my aunt in Dawlish (GWR zone), missing school for it. On the first morning of the first day, I woke up and opened the window to a gloriously sunny day and an HST departing Dawlish station (she lived just up the road from it!). One of my favourite memories :)
Martin - Member of the Moderation Team

You know you're a pilot when you drive off a cliff, and your last words are "Gear up!"
Locked

Return to “[MSTS1] General MSTS Discussion”