European Bahn returning to MSTS

[steamnut44]

I am very surprised to hear that EB are returning to developing MSTS routes again. It just goes to show that there is still a very strong following for this eight year old sim and it is about time that routes in the North where looked at more closely.
I think if EB concentrate on extending the WCML to Glasgow and the ECML to Edinburgh, this would no doubt create a lot of interest.

These could be made as add ons to the existing WCML & ECML which has already been done by EB. At the moment, there are no complete routes from London to Glasgow/Edinburgh and being as these two routes are the longest in the UK, it is about time that these two routes where extended to their full run.
I would certainly purchase their add ons if they do decide to develope these two major routes.
Branches off these routes like Crewe to Liverpool, and the Manchester route via Stoke-on-Trent and Macclesfield, could also be done as add ons. This would certainly make MSTS much more enjoyable.

Geoff

[jontrains12]

hi with that they can link the two up to get the best run for a HST

[steve1023]

I don't really care that EB are returning to producing add-ons for MSTS. For me it would take a huge shift in policy like the use of UKFS for starters before I consider buying anymore of their stuff (and seeing as they are intending on extending existing routes thats not going to happen). MT & freeware all the way.

As for RW, unfortunately I think they are signing their own death warrant by simply not producing any routes of decent length. Shame really because I don't mind it (faults and all).

Steve

[mikesimpson]

As for RW, unfortunately I think they are signing their own death warrant by simply not producing any routes of decent length. Shame really because I don't mind it (faults and all).

Steve

Hi Steve,

It does take a long time to produce a long route with the amount of detail RailWorks is capable of. This is not like building routes in MSTS with a tree every 5 miles or so . Lets face it, Kuju/Microsoft never produced anything for MSTS after they released it, yet the community soon filled this gap. A lot of good stuff is starting to appear for RailWorks and hopefully some decent routes will be in the pipeline.

Mike

[longbow]

The freeware route count here on trainsim is about 3:1 in favour of MSTS over RS/RW, which is a pretty good showing by the newer sim given that MSTS has been around almost four times longer and has a much bigger user base.

I'm not surprised that RW payware is focused on rolling stock which in terms of $ per hour must be much more lucrative than route building. But I do agree that more high quality RW routes are needed to sustain long term interest. Maybe we'll see more freeware routes being adopted and polished by payware companies, as Newcastle-York Modern has been by JustTrains.

[bigvern]

Well as I found with my brief foray into RS/RW building, it's a lot more intensive and time consuming than MSTS and certainly Trainz with end results that are not necessarily much better looking. A forest still looks like a bunch of trees planted on a green plain, unless you spam the whole area with groundcover which all has to be individually placed, rotated and sunk in the ground. I'm not sure who EB employs as route builders but maybe they hit the same brick wall as I keep doing and returned to the comfort zone of the familiar.

[NiallGray]

Well as I found with my brief foray into RS/RW building, it's a lot more intensive and time consuming than MSTS and certainly Trainz with end results that are not necessarily much better looking. A forest still looks like a bunch of trees planted on a green plain, unless you spam the whole area with groundcover which all has to be individually placed, rotated and sunk in the ground. I'm not sure who EB employs as route builders but maybe they hit the same brick wall as I keep doing and returned to the comfort zone of the familiar.

I had a brief go at Trainz (my nephew had it) before I got into MSTS and while I didn't like the gameplay of Trainz, building a route was so easy to do.

[steve1023]

Hi Steve,

It does take a long time to produce a long route with the amount of detail RailWorks is capable of. This is not like building routes in MSTS with a tree every 5 miles or so . Lets face it, Kuju/Microsoft never produced anything for MSTS after they released it, yet the community soon filled this gap. A lot of good stuff is starting to appear for RailWorks and hopefully some decent routes will be in the pipeline.

Mike

Hi Mike.

I do understand that it would take longer to produce a real life route, although I think that maybe most of the newer MSTS routes do have more than a single tree every five miles, DC, SCE, NWC to mention a few.

The problem is that currently no payware firm is offering a new real life route. I read somewhere that (I think on the JT forum) that the Bristol - Exeter route is currently on hold, and a most of the freeware coming through is fictional. Everybody is still driving around on the 'default' stuff, and getting bored of it too judging by the thread in the RW section (indeed I got bored of it about 3 months ago and promptly uninstalled RW)

If I were one of the RSDL peeps I would be slightly worried that no commercial firm wants to produce a route for their sim, but here we have EB coming back to MSTS before even starting with RW & a full length S & D due next year.

Steve

[steamnut44]

I am glad I stuck with MSTS, instead of wasting my money on RS/RW which IMHO is hardly worth shouting about. The quality of MSTS is just as good as RS/RW, has far more to offer and still has a very large following World Wide. Have a look on Trian-sim .com and you will not find much being developed for RS, 90% of their download material is for MSTS. Having read about all the plus & minus's of RS/RW, MSTS despite its age is still more enjoyable and easier to cope with. My copy of RS was banished to the cupboard along with several versions of Trainz soon after they first came out and will probably remain there, unless I decide to bin them! When we get a new train simulator that can be developed as easy as MSTS, but with much better graphics and playability, then I shall stick with MSTS. It was a pity that Microsoft shelved the new MSTS2 because this would have been far better than RS/RW and would have certainly been the the most popular.
No wonder EB have decided to come back to MSTS, they know that there is still a market out there. It wouldn't surprise me if we don't see JustTrains, ( the makers of Cambrian2) doing more routes for MSTS.

Geoff

[Easilyconfused]

I have never been one for "beauty pageants" between simulators. I will say right now that I have far more add-ons for MSTS than RS / RW. In fact the only paid for add-on I have for RW is the new Challenger pack because I really do like that.

I have MSTS / RS / RW & Trainz Ultimate Collection. Of the bunch MSTS is my simulator of choice purely because it is what I am used to and does what I want it to. Having invested a great deal of time on it I don't feel inclined to dump it at the drop of a hat because something new comes on the market unless the newcomer can do something MSTS can't.

RW looks good but until I can get it to do what I want with regard to scenarios (and I have spent some considerable time trying) it really doesn't cut it for me. Yes - there is a learning curve and I am sure Adam and Derek are grinding their teeth if they are reading this but compare the scenarios available to such classics as "Mideast - I need a drink" from Fodda which was over 3 hours long and a real challenging drive and it is like comparing Bristol Rovers with Manchester United......... Same with a lot of Laurie's activities for a variety of routes - he makes you think and exploits the AI to keep you on your toes. It seems at the moment RW doesn't really lend itself to that. I have test driven some 6 hour plus activities for MSTS on American routes - much coffee needed.

Now if one of the RW experts can step up and show us how to get to that level of scenario writing then everyone will be happy as pigs in manure. That might kick start a whole bunch of talented people off on creating the glue that binds any simulator together - scenarios / activities / whatever you want to call missions etc.

I will be totally transparent here and say I have most of the EB add-ons. Some I bought others were gifts from family or friends. They all pretty much do what they say on the tin and where there have been problems I have not been slow to report them. I understand from talking to those in the know i.e. wholesale suppliers that they are the most successful seller in terms of volume. The MT routes might be more technically polished but were a long time in the works. Both companies have hit their target markets as far as I can see and both should be congratulated on keeping such an old game platform running long after reports of it's untimely demise.

[cgood124]

Head over to the Europeanbahn website to see they are planning to do a 5 mile Caterham Branch addon to LSC due before Xmas.
It also seems that they are looking to add to Great Western.

Wonder what they are thinking about??????

[Acorncomputer]

Hi

As yet I do not think EB have said anything. The only indication that they might not be developing for RailWorks is that they no longer state that they are. If it is the case that they are not creating any RW content, then I could produce quite a long list of the possible reasons as to why not as they would probably be similar to those that I have encountered. We do have to remember that RailWorks is not trying to be like MSTS and it is clearly going down a very different path to MSTS so any comparisons are not on a like for like basis.

I too have more add-ons for MSTS than I do for RailWorks/Rail Simulator but at this stage I much prefer using the latter and I get great enjoyment from it. I think we are particularly fortunate to have a choice of Railway Simulators to use and we should be very grateful for that.

What we all really wanted to see was a much enhanced MSTS which we have not yet got and RailWorks will never fulfil that dream on its present course. MSTS2 was also a very different concept to MSTS1 and would also not have fulfilled the dream. In my mind there is no doubt that MSTS will keep going for years hence and RailWorks will develop into the online game of its corporate vision. This is NOT a bad situation and as time goes on we will all surely benefit, so we should be positive and on the way, do our best to keep UKTS buzzing with activity from all simulators represented.

[RSderek]

John, the only thing that has my teeth grinding is that you did not get the 08 in the sale.


regards

Derek

[Easilyconfused]

John, the only thing that has my teeth grinding is that you did not get the 08 in the sale.

Well I did miss out there. Not sure what weekend that was - I was either off with my local model railway club or visiting Pete and playing trains on his model railway. October was a very busy month.

I see it is £9.99 right now. What was it going for in the sale ?

I have a N gauge gronk but never got that enthused about one on the computer. I do have some MSTS 03s but gronks never really floated my boat on MSTS either unlike the Challenger. I do like big steam.

[Acorncomputer]

Hi

Just to mention the Challenge where we are hoping to have at least nine new RailWorks routes (so far) created in one week - http://forums.uktrainsim.com/viewforum.php?f=321

I hope UKTS train simmers of all faiths will have a look at this as although it is for RailWorks, this could be tried with any simulation.