Inside out lofts

[eyore]

I managed to get Bazza's boat to move, by creating an invisible path and running the boat on it as a vehicle. However when I run it in the sim the vehicle is a mirror image of the model and inside out.

Boat as scenery item...


then as a vehicle...


I remember someone else (sly?) reported a similar issue with lofts, but I can't find an answer to the problem. Has anyone else had this happen and resolved it?

[CaptainBazza]

There's also a smoothing group problem in the first pic!

I may have made that model by modeling one half, cloning, then reversing normals on the clone and welding the two halves together.

There is an issue with reversed normals in that case, even though I'm careful to reset xform and pivots. However, some things fall apart once the mesh (.3ds) is imported in 3DCPro...where further processing is required.

I only know part of the process....it's still a learning curve....and I'm a quarter of the way there at the moment.

Cheers Bazza

PS Loco? Forget it for some time.

[CaptainBazza]

Phil, does the problem show in the normal scenery model situation (no path)?

Cheers Bazza

PS (added later) I don't use lofts as such.

B.

[eyore]

Phil, does the problem show in the normal scenery model situation (no path)?

Cheers Bazza

PS (added later) I don't use lofts as such.

B.

I'm afraid the pictures don't show the detail very clearly, but the first pic shows the model in game, without the path, and looks as expected. The second pic tries to show the result with the lofted path.

If you look at second pic, it is not just mirrored, what you can see is through the front of the model to the inside of the back, with the back texture showing through.

RS say it is an "Art" effect and have promised a reply on Tuesday, after the holiday weekend. You may need to re-model this one Bazza!

After taking 24 hrs to realise that, in the blueprint, selecting "CT ship" was a mistake as RS considers this a vehicle so I needed "CT Road", I was so pleased with myself for getting it to run in game. Good old RS, bites you in the butt every time.

[sad27]

A igs in a Vehiclebleuprint are always rendered inside out while exporting.
It can be solved by changing the material in 2-sided in the Max file. I don't know how it's done in 3dc.
Make sure that text in the textures will also be mirrored then.
You can see that for example in the bus of the IOW addon. As a scenery object the text on the bus is ok, but as a vehicle it is mirrored.

good luck,

SAD

[CaptainBazza]

After a long discussion with Phil, per SKYPE, I suggested we beat the sim at its own game.....we play a trick on the sod....and turn the model inside out. The theory being that if it displays a normal model inside out, then a model with reversed normals will show correctly....let's await developments with baited breaths and crossed digits.

Cheers Bazza

[RSderek]

Hi,

If the model is showing inside out then there is a problem with the model.
In max this can happen if you attach an object to another object that has been mirrored.
You do not get the problem if you attach an item that has been mirrored to an object which has not.

Normally a reset transform is needed, the the polygons flipping.

I'm afraid I know nothing of canvas so am not able to help.

Not sure about what a loft might do to an object, I'll ask the guys at work tomorrow.

regards

Derek

[eyore]

Following my chat with Bazza, I reloaded the model, but inside out! (inverted everything in 3DC)

It works, although everything is still mirrored.e.g. the guy in the picture is actually on the port side of the model, not starboard.

[CaptainBazza]

You could almost learn to love a quirky wee divil like this sim.

I agree with Derek; somehow or other the reversed normals have re-reversed themselves during the conversion (probably). I usually pick up this problem well before that (in .3ds mesh format), but sometimes things do go wrong for reasons not always apparent - and to qualify that, as Derek says, it's a 'modeling problem, not the sim. We lived and learned and got burned in MSTS1 and no doubt it's RS's turn to amuse, bemuse and confuse (ABC, get it?).

Cheers Bazza

[eyore]

You could almost learn to love a quirky wee divil like this sim.

I agree with Derek; somehow or other the reversed normals have re-reversed themselves during the conversion (probably). I usually pick up this problem well before that (in .3ds mesh format), but sometimes things do go wrong for reasons not always apparent - and to qualify that, as Derek says, it's a 'modeling problem, not the sim. We lived and learned and got burned in MSTS1 and no doubt it's RS's turn to amuse, bemuse and confuse (ABC, get it?).

Cheers Bazza

OK Bazza, so I can expect the new model when?

[eyore]

It seems to me that its not a problem with the model but with the way RS handles vehicle properties.

I ran a test with a simple box with any old texture on it and the result was still inside out and mirrored..

[RSderek]

Hi,
After chatting with the guys, there is as you have pointed out an issue with traffic on roads, or objects along paths
For some reason the loft flips the normals of a perfectly good model.
The way the guys got round the problem was to make the material double sided for traffic travelling along the roads.

Once I know more I'll let you know.

regards

Derek

[eyore]

Hi,
After chatting with the guys, there is as you have pointed out an issue with traffic on roads, or objects along paths
For some reason the loft flips the normals of a perfectly good model.
The way the guys got round the problem was to make the material double sided for traffic travelling along the roads.

Once I know more I'll let you know.

regards

Derek

Thanks for the reply.

Unfortunately, 3DCanvas doesn't support double sided materials (as far as I'm aware). Perhaps Autodesk could do a "Pensioners" version of 3dsmax as well as the student version, then I could ?

I could double side the polys, but that would be an issue on the poly count.

[3DTrains]

It works, although everything is still mirrored.e.g. the guy in the picture is actually on the port side of the model, not starboard.

Reversed models (left to right, not inside out) is a current issue with vehicle objects/traffic.

[decapod]

Thanks for the reply.

Unfortunately, 3DCanvas doesn't support double sided materials (as far as I'm aware). Perhaps Autodesk could do a "Pensioners" version of 3dsmax as well as the student version, then I could ?

I could double side the polys, but that would be an issue on the poly count.

In the RailSimX field, type in TwoSided=1 to export a double sided material.

If that doesn't work, try BackfaceCull=1