Freeware Organization or Disorganization

edlight · Post by **edlight** » Thu Mar 22, 2007 1:19 am

I'm wondering if there will be some way to keep freeware in good order. In Trainz, lots of times you download a railroad and textures and even tracks are missing that aren't on the download station, etc.

CaptainBazza · Post by **CaptainBazza** » Thu Mar 22, 2007 4:53 am

I was under the impression that the TRS system was setup to automatically retrieve all the required files when downloading.

You are right to bring this up, because we still have problems in that respect with MSTS.

For KRS, a universal author/user agreed protocol is a must, and would be very useful to discuss this matter before the sim comes out, and it can be refined later, after the release.

Cheers Bazza

PS The same should apply to MSTS X.

DarwinS · Post by **DarwinS** » Thu Mar 22, 2007 6:16 am

Good to have an agreement...

But I don't think things are deliberately missed out by add on authors. Unless there is some automated way to check that an add on is complete and functional, we are all subject to human error.

In the case of some locos that I uploaded for MSTS, more than 200 downloads passed before anyone pointed out a missing sms file. As all the downloaders have presumably either fixed the problem themselves or deleted the download - I am not ashamed of waiting until I have improved some other things and issued "version 2" before I correct matters.

AndiS · Post by **AndiS** » Thu Mar 22, 2007 9:04 am

Since Kuju looked at Trainz in detail I really hope that they realised that good consistency checks for the file library are about as important as working front couplers (and much more than working turn tables).

If there are several independent servers (as announced), then I don't know exactly how that would be implemented, but again, I am sure that they are aware that this is a crucial issue.

Unfortunately, it goes beyond the plain missing of files. As Klaus and others pointed out, people are very bad in labelling their stuff correctly and adhere to consistent scheme to do so. This is much harder to handle than the checks for completeness. The latter could be implemented by a third party running the server, too, btw. -- provided that the data format is as open as promised.

tads1970 · Post by **tads1970** » Thu Mar 22, 2007 10:54 am

Hi,

I would like to know more about the download side of things and how this would be handled,login details or providing a CD key to ensure no piracy takes place, something along the lines of trainz download station,if you havnt got a genuine cd key registered to your name you cant have access to download the files,this is a must.

If these servers offer files to anybody without any kind of security in place (a genuine cd key),you only need 1 copy of KRS to hit the torrent sites and it'l spread like a disease coupled with a free server for addons,this will be the downfall of KRS.

I would even pay for access to some kind of central high speed server.

Daz

edlight · Post by **edlight** » Sat Mar 24, 2007 1:37 am

>DarwinS:
>Good to have an agreement...
>But I don't think things are deliberately missed out by add on authors.

A railroad may use lots and lots of "dependencies" by other authors.

edlight · Post by **edlight** » Sat Mar 24, 2007 1:41 am

tads1970 wrote:
I would even pay for access to some kind of central high speed server.

Daz

Perhaps I shouldn't mention this, but -- Trainz charges for a high-speed downloading upgrade. Not alot, though.

CaptainBazza · Post by **CaptainBazza** » Sun Mar 25, 2007 6:52 am

I can't see that RS routes will be any less in size compared to MSTS routes. From my own perspective I'd like to see a nice tidy folder setup for locos and rolling stock. In this respect MSTS isn't too bad. I prefer to see individual Sound and Cabview folders rather than a global folder.

Cheers Bazza

KlausM · Post by **KlausM** » Sun Mar 25, 2007 8:33 am

Fortunately, I have no idea about the content management in MSTS. All I read sounds like horror compared to Trainz. It would be preferable if, like in Trainz, each asset has its own directory and there is no need alter some global files or to place some files in global directories for the inclusion of some assets.

Klaus,

who, by the way, cannot believe that Kuju is so incapable of releasing any information of a supposed nearly complete product.

tads1970 · Post by **tads1970** » Sun Mar 25, 2007 12:27 pm

I would have thought more info/and or updates would have been posted by now,but nothing.....just a cant go near the team from Sabrina,leaves all us guessing i suppose.

Time is running out,the dev team must be busy busy busy,let them get on with it,another few months of little news isnt going to hurt or make little differance at this stage.

Daz

CaptainBazza · Post by **CaptainBazza** » Sun Mar 25, 2007 2:08 pm

....another few months of little news isnt going to hurt or make little differance at this stage.

Hey, don't throw them a rope yet. With the official EA release date touted as about mid-May, there's not much time left, is there?

Cheers Bazza

PS Kuju are positive songbirds compared to the TSX team - never have so many said so little in such a long time! (Feel free to quote me on that.)

MuzTrem · Post by **MuzTrem** » Sun Mar 25, 2007 7:08 pm

tads1970 wrote:I would like to know more about the download side of things and how this would be handled,login details or providing a CD key to ensure no piracy takes place, something along the lines of trainz download station,if you havnt got a genuine cd key registered to your name you cant have access to download the files,this is a must.

If these servers offer files to anybody without any kind of security in place (a genuine cd key),you only need 1 copy of KRS to hit the torrent sites and it'l spread like a disease coupled with a free server for addons,this will be the downfall of KRS.

I would even pay for access to some kind of central high speed server.

Sorry to be difficult, but personally I don't like the sound of this.
As a creator of freeware content, I'm happy to make my files availible to anyone, and I don't see why they shouldn't be availible to download by anyone who wants to download them, even if they don't have the software to make use of it. Who knows, it may be that seeing the freeware downloads that are availible actually encourages people to go out and by KRS. I certainly wouldn't want to be restricted to one "official" site when uploading files; the more sites host KRS content the more people will find it.
If KRS is uploaded to torrent sites, that's Kuju/EA's problem and I'm sure they'll deal with it.
And I certainly wouldn't want to have to pay to access a server...I release content as freeware, and it is important to me that people should be able to access it for free.

tads1970 · Post by **tads1970** » Sun Mar 25, 2007 11:04 pm

Hi MuzTrem,

IMO the people who get hold of trainz or trs06 by torrent sites face a big issue,yeah they might have the game,but all other content is handled by the DLS in which you MUST have a valid CD KEY to your name to download files.Lets just say they manage to get hold of a route or a loco,it could be anything,more than likely youl need to download extra files (dependancies)from the DLS,you cant if you havnt got a valid cd key registered to your name,so the game is practically useless.

On the other hand if say i download MSTS (which ive already bought)all that is required to obtain addons,is register with some site like UKTS,all the files are there,routes,locos,rolling stock this has just made it easier for the parasites to get hold of and play their games with no cost at all.

At least try and protect the product from piracy,how many auran torrents can you find apart from TRS06?
Now go and type MSTS in the torrent sites,i can find nearly all payware routes ever released plastered all over even GREAT EASTERN with a cd install key.......dont bother asking where from

Now what does that tell you?

IMO doing it this way will encourage more people to buy a legit copy,possibly making the way for more third party addons.

Lots of people still offer freeware on there own websites for trs06,but more than likely you still need some files from auran,no cd key... no files

I know lots of UKTS users will object strongly,but the last thing i want to see is a next gen rail sim so easily accesible to the piraters and all content that goes with it.

I hope no one takes offence to the MSTS referance

Daz

MuzTrem · Post by **MuzTrem** » Mon Mar 26, 2007 6:02 pm

tads1970 wrote:On the other hand if say i download MSTS (which ive already bought)all that is required to obtain addons, is register with some site like UKTS, all the files are there, routes, locos, rolling stock

Which is precisely what I like about UKTS...if you're unsure about whether or not to buy the game, you can just visit the site, have a browse and see what addons are availible. If you see something you really like, it may be that that finally persaudes you to buy the game.
I appreciate your concerns about piracy, but as I have said, if it gets uploaded to torrent sites it's Kuju and EA's problem - and I have no doubt that they will do something about it. Why should the freeware developers be penalised for other people's illeagal activities?
I - and, I suspect, many others - like the freedom we have with MSTS to upload to whatever sites we like. If I fell out with UKTS - and sadly, some people have in the past - I can still upload my addons somewhere else, and the community won't suffer from the loss of them. If we're only allowed to upload them to one official site and I fell out with them, the community wouldn't be able to download my creations any more.
Similarly, if I wanted to set up a dedicated site for German narrow gauge addons or whatever, I could do that. In fact, the first MSTS addons I found were on the Tal-y-lyn and Ffestiniog sites, and if I hadn't found those I wouldn't have found UKTS, and the community would have one less member.

tads1970 · Post by **tads1970** » Mon Mar 26, 2007 6:52 pm

Hi MuzTrem,

I appreciate your views,guess we'll just have to wait and find out from Kuju how this will work,no doubt they will have already looked into this.

Daz