Field weakening will be available on KRS

[CaptainBazza]

Interesting; here's a brief explanation (excuse pun) of a diesel electric locomotive. (There are diesel engined locomotive that directly drive the wheels via a gearbox and either an automatic or manual transmission.)

A diesel electric locomotive is more cunning, a large diesel engine/motor drives a large generator, which produces electric current to drive traction motors which drive the wheels via gears, usually of fixed ratio depending on the service speed of the locomotive. The control of the DE locomotive is via the electrical system, which controls the diesel engine, which supplies the required current to drive the traction motors under various physical loadings such as train tonnage, grades, weather, etc.

A straight electric locomotive uses power derived from external sources, such as overhead wire, third rail, or battery power sources, and the current drives traction motors in the manner of a DE.

The beauty of train simulators, as opposed to model railway systems, is you need knowledge of how things work in reality. So a fair question deserves a fair reply.

Use of the term "electric engine" is confusing in this context and I must confess that's the first time I've ever seen it used. The more usual terminology is "electric locomotive" for the locomotive and "electric motor" is another name for the traction motors (set in the bogies.)

The terms "steam locomotive" and "steam engine" are interchangeable descriptions depending where you live. However, to complicate matters, "steam engine" can also be applied to all 'stationary' steam engines. "Steam motor" is never used, or at least I've never seen, or heard, the term used.

Here endth the lesson.

[DaveR]

Removed

[adam3544]

I know what an electric Locomotive is but I'm baffled as to how a traction motor can be called an electric engine which is what I am talking about in this thread.

Dave.

Dave, you're absolutely right since there is big difference between regular electric motor with constant revolution/torque opposite to traction motor with changing torque. This ability to change its rev/torque is made with assistance of auxilliary equipment, especially built to change the value of current or voltage or frequency by inserting/removing resistors in DC traction motors, or changing the input voltage by mechanical tap changers on AC motors or by three- phase inverters on asynchroneous traction as in the modern traction vehicles like BR 101.
Every traction motor is also built more robust with forced ventillation as opposite to regular industrial electric motors with self ventillation.
Diesel electric locos using generators attached to its diesel engine connected by wires to DC motors or modern diesel electric locos using alternators for AC motors or inverters for async.motor.
Diesel shunters using hydraulic transmission or rarely mechanical one.

Adam

[bigvern]

Perhaps those who feel they know better should be contacting Kuju direct to offer their services?

And can I suggest Page 3 of this thread needs a bit of tidying by the moderators to remove some of the waffle/sniping?

[johndibben]

Perhaps those who feel they know better should be contacting Kuju direct to offer their services?

And can I suggest Page 3 of this thread needs a bit of tidying by the moderators to remove some of the waffle/sniping?

Maybe they simply don't want KRS? They don't sound like they do.

Moderating a forum of a commercial group is difficult and apart from abuse, sniping at Kuju is a matter for them and they have the power to moderate.

Assume they see it for what it is, hopefully realise it's a minority and consider it to be harmless waffle.

[DarrenCarter]

And all this thread turns out to be aload of waffle because Kuju called a motor (which everyone new thats what they were refering to) an electric engine. Get a life.

[AndiS]

Perhaps those who feel they know better should be contacting Kuju direct to offer their services?

That was done to a considerable extend in the tread about the advisory committees.
If Kuju invite people to share their knowledge on a certain topic many will do so.
If they post something they already did, they imply that they did it with the best resources at hand, so I can understand if people grumble a bit about a) bad usage of technical terms, b) believed errors in the implementation/model. Where b) is more serious than a), of course.

Personally, I am completely undecided whether the deficits in knowledge on the subjects which are definitely there on many occasions will a) be a minor glitch to be fixed by the time of release, b) be a local problem of some default stock which will later be forgotten, c) will lead to pervers behaviour as observed in MSTS that will haunt us for years.

Therefore, it would be great if Kuju would release the framework of the physical model. Will it be completely hardcoded, or will it be some formulas in Lua (or whatever) which can be changed by someone who knows about programming and about the technical detail in question? In the latter case, I only care about the available parameters, some experts will do all the rest. In the first case, we have to live with what we get and are right to be a bit nervous about the details.

[DaveR]

Removed

[plainsman]

Just to illustrate some other intertesting things that one may not have associated with the electrical side of locomotives:
This explains why switching units are speed limited, they do not have transition and shunting (except a few MP15 and maybe some MLW units), so they can't get over about 35-40 mph. Some are permanently wired in series so they have even lower speed, but more starting tractive effort. Most are simply wired series-parallel.
This explains why the GP35 was such a disliked unit. It had nine stages of shunt before transition and five stages after transition. This very complex circuitry was very hard to keep in perfect working order on units shaking and lurching across many miles of track.
This explains the unique performance of the SD38. This unit starts out in 2P-3S and transitions without shunting at 12-13 mph to 3P-2S, with three stages of shunting following. This results in the final configuration about the same as an SD40 just before transition. Thus these units can't operate at speeds over 35-40 mph.
Bob Boudoin

[johndibben]

I've always supported UKTS 'when push comes to shove', even if that's been a problem

Never left in a huff. Never given up on trainsimming, MSTS or Trainz.

Been called all sorts and soaked it up.

Remaining consistant isn't popular but members know where I stand.

I want Kuju to succeed and will if allowed, point out anything to the contrary.

Vern has as well and spent many hours providing routes which members clearly enjoy. Many more than myself and most others.

As such the sleight against him is much greater.

I post here in defence of Kuju though and not Vern and don't bother Matt.

Members will form their own attitudes towards us both and I've always placed their combined judgement far higher than any individual.

Cheers

John

[bigvern]

Dear oh dear... Wasn't aware that I had actually "sniped" anybody! Maybe time for a new avatar with crosshairs and telescopic sight...

As to the rest of Mr. Dave's apparent valedictory, life is too short to comment further. It's only a game within the grand scheme of things. Lot's of things going on in the world that are far more important. For that matter, lots more things to do and enjoy on the PC other than train simming too.

However just for the record, I've not been afraid to offer up criticism of KRS features such as possible IGA or the initial appearance of the graphics engine. On this occasion yes they could have proof read their article more thoroughly but didn't really justify such a harsh slagging off.

[DarrenCarter]

“ it’s only a word, get a life” at least I know what electricity is, you it would seem are one of today’s set who except anything thrown at them and we are all the worse for it, yes it is only a word, I wonder how many correct words in the world stops people from dieing everyday? but they are only words right, words that make sure things are done correctly.

Punch. Ouch!! (Receives bloody nose).

Dave you brought all this on yourself. You chose to ridicule Kuju's latest terminology knowing full well what they meant. Many readers of this forum are getting tired of posts that just critisise the most trivial aspects of everything Kuju has to offer us and in my opinion some posts ridiculed you for doing so. No wonder Kuju give us very few updates.

I love MSTS and have contributed material to it. It is a tough job to get everything everyone wants and sometimes a compromise has to be drawn for the sake of time and frame rates.
If Kuju had said here is a pic of our Deltic and they showed us a Class31 that is cause for serious concern. But terminology will not affect the end result.

You have been on this forum for six years and to leave over something so trivial i think is ridiculous and i have only one thing to say to you on that:-
DONT LET US GRIND YOU DOWN.

P.S I have been an electrician for the past 24 years completing an apprenticeship at Swindon Railway Works repairing and reconditioning main generators and traction motors on Class08 shunters. I now design and build electrical control panels so i do know a thing or two about electricity.

Darren.

[johndibben]

You have been on this forum for six years and to leave over something so trivial i think is ridiculous...

Darren.

Dave's 'left' at least twice before and so don't feel bad about it.

My main point is to echo one you made and that is more general in that if we act like sad, pedantic anoraks we'll be treated with the contempt we deserve. Dave has made very few posts on this forums and so I'm not having a go at him.

We're all enthusiasts and that means being passionate about matters. Unfortunately there's trap where we get involved to a point when it becomes an important part of life. There can be strains between the two. Further strains appear if we split into groups but that is the case in all hobbies. Over the years it becomes the norm. Any attempt to stop it is met with more anger than simply continuing with it.

O gauge people will moan about OO gauge people in railways modelling and quality is always an issue as people tend to come together with those who hold similar values and impose those values upon others. It's been the ruin of many clubs and is why they often doen't last long.

The situation apears far better these days with people having to pull together far more.

A new sim will change all that and I wouldn't like it all to start up again as it made hard work of what is only a hobby.

As Vern said, life really is too short.

I've other issues and other people to worry about which has put matters into perspective.

Cheers

John

[jbilton]

Hi
I've been following this thread with interest.
Not sure why it always has to get personal, spoils the thread, and gives some the opportunity to mask the true points in all the smoke.
Don't like it when everyone starts posting 'its only a hobby'.
Might as well pack-up and go home, if thats the attitude.
I understand DaveR, I think the terminology is wrong too.
But I for one am not surprised, I've seen nothing released after 18 months development to lead me to think KRS is any better than a newer version of MSTS.Which for me and others, was always a bit too game like.
AB made a good point earlier on.....and the KRS sounds are what I am waiting to hear about.....because that is one area where there has been fantastic improvements on PCs, in the last 6 years.
And sounds are the main flaw to MSTS still.
Cheers
Jon

[CaptainBazza]

I've seen nothing released after 18 months development to lead me to think KRS is any better than a newer version of MSTS.

Oh contrare, JohnB, I've seen nothing in the last 18 months to make me think that pessimistically.