Add On Announcement

[mickoo737]

Marc,

Thats probably two fold, KRS is very pro European right now, and two, there targeting commercial teams that they know or might possible be able to stump there proposed license fees, its no good contacting companies below a certain threshold if they cannot sustain the KRS addon policy, and if rumours being just even slightly true, that will be a large proportion l'd guess.

I think most UK commercial teams have been approached, some I'm pretty sure have walked away for differing reasons, the rest sit on the fence ( a viable business option in this scenario ), I've not heard of one actively pursuing KRS addon policy.

Of course NDAs preclude us really knowing who's doing what, but in instances like this, word often gets around.

The playing field right now does not look remotely level, worse, there appears to be several fields to choose from, in an obtuse way, KRS are slowly developing there own 'old boys' network themselves.

[MaxFreak]

However, any commercials leaving will create a gap somwhere and that will provide incentive for freeware if only to make that which cannot be obtained elsewhere.

Any gap created may also be filled by others who are prepared to accept a portion of the same risk as Kuju in producing for a niche product such as train simming.

Personally I see no problem with the payware scheme and it seems not much different to any other commercial licensing venture.

And this quote is welcome news ..

We do not intend to restrict freeware, we want it to grow and be accessible to everyone regardless of location, language and particular interests.

Interesting reading in this thread

~A~

[bigvern]

Another interesting issue from this, is if "Favoured Commercial Company A" decide they are doing Fort William to Mallaig which EA/Kuju will then sell for £20, where does that leave poor old Vern with his freeware version? They are not going to host a route on their servers which will rival a commercial effort or agree to a CD "at cost" distribution for similar reasons. Depending how aggressively this is all policed they could try and block attempts at third party hosting, e.g. on UKTS or Train-sim.com.

It does happen - just look at what has happened in Hong Kong with Lik Sang who were selling import consoles and games (genuine stuff, not bootlegs) but have now been closed down by Sony who took exception to this. A case of the big corporation deciding what consoles people should own and what games certain parts of the world should be playing (and in case you may think this is veering OT, it is relevant as that's the only way of obtaining/playing Japanese train sims).

With MSTS there was kind of a gentleman's agreement with regard to route development that the freeware people would not tread on the toes of the commercials. However that is unlikely to be the case with KRS and it could get...interesting.

[MaxFreak]

Another interesting issue from this, is if "Favoured Commercial Company A" decide they are doing Fort William to Mallaig which EA/Kuju will then sell for £20, where does that leave poor old Vern with his freeware version? They are not going to host a route on their servers which will rival a commercial effort or agree to a CD "at cost" distribution for similar reasons. Depending how aggressively this is all policed they could try and block attempts at third party hosting, e.g. on UKTS or Train-sim.com.


With MSTS there was kind of a gentleman's agreement with regard to route development that the freeware people would not tread on the toes of the commercials. However that is unlikely to be the case with KRS and it could get...interesting.

Kuju said

www.railsimulator.com will be a central place where community members can share, rate and discuss freeware but we will NOT prevent any other websites from offering the same service.

Anything wrong with having your own hosting service ?.

And if a freeware creator ( or group of ) can produce content that's equal or better than something you're asked to pay for then someone's in the wrong game.

And I'm not a gentleman .

~A~

[dkightley]

Anything wrong with having your own hosting service ?.

Interesting point...

Kuju have said:

......we will NOT prevent any other websites from offering the same service

Which is different to saying they would encourage anyone else having a hosting service for KRS freeware. As Vern says, KRS having licenced a particular route for commercial use, how would they react to a freeware version being made available from another source.

[MaxFreak]

Anything wrong with having your own hosting service ?.

Interesting point...

Kuju have said:

......we will NOT prevent any other websites from offering the same service

Which is different to saying they would encourage anyone else having a hosting service for KRS freeware. As Vern says, KRS having licenced a particular route for commercial use, how would they react to a freeware version being made available from another source.

I've taken the statement released by the company to be their official position and they're going to look very very foolish if anything in that statement is revoked

~A~

[jbilton]

Hi
Hosting services are not free........as we get told over and over again.
Always interesting reading other peoples points of view.
I personally don't mind buying anything, if it gives me what I want.
Likewise if a freeware item is better, I mix and match.
And if neither, I paint one myself.
But it seems clear to me there will be less UK commercial addons, for reasons given in previous postings.
And any produced are going to have to be more expensive than they are now (as Kuju want a cut big or small).
Whether we see a flourish of good quality UK freeware , to fill this void.
Only time will tell.
Of course the other side of the coin is like Trainz, being sold at a bargain £4.99 in games shops after only a few months....because the 'community' doesn't support the software.....and the mass market of the High St games industry is very fast moving and fickle.
Now it could be KRS will go this route with full priced CD upgrades every year to try to capture the market....but that wouldn't be good for the hobby either IMO.
Cheers
Jon

[bigvern]

It's a point that requires clarification though. The problem with EULA's and licences is that they raise more questions than they answer. Look at the arguments which raged over interpretation of MSTS with their definition of "original content" meaning default objects but certain parties deciding that meant original third party content they had made. Then MS moved the goalposts by relenting and allowing their track and road shapes to be used in commercial routes (though they didn't publicise the fact) and later still seemed to raise no objection to default objects being used (again no public change to the EULA).

I don't want to spend 3 or 4 months working on such a route, offer it to Kuju for hosting or to request the permission for a CD distribution only to be told, "Sorry but that clashes with something our teams are doing." Weeks of work potentially wasted. And I certainly don't want to feel the big legal hand of an EA lawyer grabbing my shoulder and saying, "We'll just take your house now to pay for the losses your freeware work has caused our commercial project." I brown stuff you not, it could happen.

[timbooth]

Anything wrong with having your own hosting service ?.

Interesting point...

Kuju have said:

......we will NOT prevent any other websites from offering the same service

Which is different to saying they would encourage anyone else having a hosting service for KRS freeware. As Vern says, KRS having licenced a particular route for commercial use, how would they react to a freeware version being made available from another source.

The full quote

"www.railsimulator.com will be a central place where community members can share, rate and discuss freeware but we will NOT prevent any other websites from offering the same service. We do not intend to restrict freeware, we want it to grow and be accessible to everyone regardless of location, language and particular interests."

Seems straightforward to me, they are going to offer their own file sharing service but don't mind anyone else doing the same. Besides, I can't imagine they'd want to host ALL the worlds freeware KRS add-ons.

Also, KRS are licencing add-ons, not routes - they can't do anything about freeware routes that happen to duplicate commercial ones. However, its possible that, say, a preservation route may negotiate an exclusive contract with a commercial developer - so that no other commercial developer can reproduce the same route for KRS.

[MaxFreak]

Seems straightforward to me, they are going to offer their own file sharing service but don't mind anyone else doing the same. Besides, I can't imagine they'd want to host ALL the worlds freeware KRS add-ons.

Also, KRS are licencing add-ons, not routes - they can't do anything about freeware routes that happen to duplicate commercial ones. However, its possible that, say, a preservation route may negotiate an exclusive contract with a commercial developer - so that nobody else can develop it for KRS.

Seems straightforward to me also . And I see no reason to change my plans to host my work on my server .

I don't see the boogeyman anywhere

~A~

[timbooth]

I don't want to spend 3 or 4 months working on such a route, offer it to Kuju for hosting or to request the permission for a CD distribution only to be told, "Sorry but that clashes with something our teams are doing." Weeks of work potentially wasted. And I certainly don't want to feel the big legal hand of an EA lawyer grabbing my shoulder and saying, "We'll just take your house now to pay for the losses your freeware work has caused our commercial project." I brown stuff you not, it could happen.

Since they have stated they aren't going to restrict the freeware community they you can host the route elsewhere/yourself, if Kuju were indeed that restrictive about the files on their own service. Kuju may be 'selective' about what freeware add-ons it hosts, but its their service to do as they please.

I've not read anything from Kuju that makes me think I won't be able to host my own KRS items, and I certainly hope to.

I can understand concern about the viability of commercial routes, but if a few commercial routes don't get off the ground then we will still live, and a freeware one (at least one) will probably be available over time. I can't though understand the concern about the freeware community, when they've not said anything to threaten it. Youre all paranoid the lot of you - and I thought I had mental health issues :p

[ozziedriver]

All these posts, speculation and debate must be saving KUJU a small fortune in legal argument
At least in Australia we won’t have to worry about duplicating a KUJU route
We have to worry about if we will ever get train sim down under to start with, as no distribution downunder has been stated

[johndibben]

*Duplicated post*

[johndibben]

Youre all paranoid the lot of you - and I thought I had mental health issues :p

I know I have but another reason I come here is to realise they're not as bad as some and you should take comfort as well if only in that you can read what Kuju have said

[johndibben]

I think the future looks rosey - except maybe for those wanting to make a buck or two

Logic dictates a simple buck or two wouldn't produce the howls of protest.

Should've said Kuju have provided a base for a level playing field. It's sloped due to continuing uncertainty about TMTS.

Vern's always been in 'no-mans land' and no doubt would be with any sim having tried Trainz at one point

Kuju's orientatation is the norm as others have said.

Cheers

John