KRS and direct X 10?

matrix358 · Post by **matrix358** » Sat Sep 23, 2006 9:23 am

Heya

!

Just a quick post to raise the question of direct X integration, I'm betting this has been raised in the past but seen as things seem to be moving quite swiftly in terms of production, I thought it might just be worth mentioning again!

I was just browsing over a web preview of the soon to be released MSFS X and noticed that at the time of the release (which is sometime early October) the simulator will only be supporting the main features of direct X 9 - a great relief. But after the release of direct X 10, it will be updated extensively to make full use of the graphical innovations that Microsoftâ€™s brand new operating system will make available to next generation gaming titles. I've seen an artistic render of flight sim with what appears to be DX10 features which include some rather lovely water effects and lighting filters etc, it just looks very impressive.

Basically, I'm just wondering if we'll see direct X 10 support in the form of an update, or an integrated feature upon release. Its probably too early to give any details..! But it'd be interesting to think about.

(I wish I didn't have to buy a silly Mac for my design course, bye bye Alienware laptop...lol

)

3DTrains · Post by **3DTrains** » Sat Sep 23, 2006 2:05 pm

Once the bugs have been worked out of KRS after release, I would imagine Kuju could then consider such an offering, but IMHO, far too early and far too many variables to think about with an un-released and un-tested (aka: public consumption) graphics platform.

Cheers!
Marc - 3DTrains
http://www.3dtrains.com

steampsi · Post by **steampsi** » Wed Sep 27, 2006 11:45 am

direct X 10 support in the form of an update

Did you say KRS version II ???

As KRS I is being done using D3D9, it would be a major re-write to use D3D10.

Not to mention Vista is not due until Q1 2007 and the first D3D10 cards are only just about to be released (D3D10 needs Vista) so will be a while yet before D3D10 has any sort of market share.

There are only a handful of D3D10 games confirmed atm.

http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1081630

NB Rumour has it that NVidia is going to release a physics. ATI are getting on the bandwagon too. The market is hotting up !

http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2006/09/21 ... dia_beans/

keber · Post by **keber** » Wed Sep 27, 2006 7:08 pm

Sure, version 2.

But remember, MSTS verion 1 is after more than five years still popular.

And I very much doubt, that KRS version 2 will be available anytime soon (of course, even version 1 is still in the clouds, more or less)

Many today games didn't need "major re-write" to include new graphical features. Usually patch was more than enough to substantially improve graphics (like Far Cry or even Half-Life 2)

steampsi · Post by **steampsi** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 10:40 am

Many today games didn't need "major re-write" to include new graphical features

That's not a valid comparison. This thread is talking about D3D9 versus D3D10.

In D3D10 the fixed function pipeline is gone. You have to roll your own shaders for _all_ the engine. Lots of work to just to port a graphics engine from 9 to 10, let alone any enhancements. D3D10 is significantly more verbose and is completely different to code in than D3D9.

(Warning geek stuff ahead) Quote from a tutorial on D3D10 vertex buffers:

D3D10 is more verbose than Direct3D 9. Using the classic fixed-function pipeline, the code presented in this article (creating a vertex buffer) takes approximately 40 lines. Using the programmable pipeline in Direct3D 9 results in 50 lines. The Direct3D 10 pipeline uses 60 lines.

The code is _completely_ different, as well as the 50% increase in lines to do the same job !

The benefits are D3D10 will be faster & better, but to do this they completely changed the driver model and needs vista, a brand new OS to learn for a developer, as well as D3D10 changes.

Just to emphasise - Win XP will not run D3D10. So there will be a small market for quite a while while Vista and new hardware is adopted. D3D10 is not even needed to run Vista either, only a card that does shader model 2.0. And for the old style 2D interface you don't even need that. So many Vista's will probably still have D3D9 for a while to come.

My point is that it will be a while before it will be beneficial to code for D3D10 unless you are a huge project, eg flight sim X.

There could be some scope to tweak/improve shaders etc within KRS, eg for atmospheric effects, but it is not trivial to port from one version to the next, let alone add new features. You can't just 'patch' from D3D9 to 10.

KlausM · Post by **KlausM** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 12:45 pm

Interestingly, even the Vista desktop window composition system or whatever it is named, i.e. the piece of software that does all this translucent effects, animations and 3D task switching on the windows, does not use DX10, but DX9.

Klaus

CaptainBazza · Post by **CaptainBazza** » Mon Oct 02, 2006 2:20 am

I love it when you guys talk 'tech' because I learn heaps......heh, heh.

keber · Post by **keber** » Mon Oct 02, 2006 7:41 am

KlausM wrote:Interestingly, even the Vista desktop window composition system or whatever it is named, i.e. the piece of software that does all this translucent effects, animations and 3D task switching on the windows, does not use DX10, but DX9.

This is logical. If this system would need DX10, then no-one would be able to see those effects. DX10 cards are not yet on market.