Will Kuju now make their project more global

danielw2599 · Post by **danielw2599** » Mon May 22, 2006 2:39 pm

Taken from MTs forum...

"Thought I would put my head around the door- nothing really changes that much, the Train sim world may eventually benefit from this move in the long run though, it will supply a needed breathing space for developers too, as the guys have stated above, we are still building TMTS its just not going to hit the shelves, who knows, you may see it later on, just not right now.

Tim C"

In anycase its not being released anytime soon so no point in worrying about it.

Daniel

Post by **NeutronIC** » Mon May 22, 2006 2:53 pm

To clarify, my interpretation of "cancelled" was based on the phrasing "on hold indefinitely" which is what the title of the message I received was. Indefinitely tends to suggest dead and buried to me.

If it's just "on hold" then absolutely, not at all the same as cancelled!

Matt.

salopiangrowler · Post by **salopiangrowler** » Mon May 22, 2006 3:19 pm

indefinitly also mean infinate and we cannot measure how long infinate is. Yes indefinitley purely mean dead and buried or on the top shelf in the garden shed. Dusty cobweb's and out of date by the time they remember its there.

Obviously UPRR have given PI a heaven stressful load to get the Training Simulation version ready.

mickoo737 · Post by **mickoo737** » Mon May 22, 2006 3:29 pm

on hold indefinitely can be taken two ways :

On hold until further notice and that being days weeks months or

On hold for ever and soon to be canceled.

Of the two options the camp is divided, those being optimistic opting for the first possible answer, those being pessimistic opting for the second, or and l hesitate to suggest the second option being voiced by those that want it canceled as opposed to delayed.

Lets be honest it would suit many if TMTS was out of the picture, however a word of caution, with no 'perceived' competition what is there to drive KRS to be the best, a one horse race never crosses the finish line with maximum exuberance.

Best

Michael

danielw2599 · Post by **danielw2599** » Mon May 22, 2006 3:46 pm

I would say (IMO) the first option sounds about right, only not being weeks or months but years, mabye 2 or 3. Of course I am basing this on nothing!

It would be such a shame (and waste of time) if they cancel all thier hardwork.

Daniel

Post by **NeutronIC** » Mon May 22, 2006 3:52 pm

I'd much rather have both sims there, I can't speak for anyone else, but I'd definitely rather have both. Each was looking to cater for different aspects and the variety would have been good and completely agree with your one-horse-race comment.

That said, I do feel there are occasions when "pessimism" is actually "realism". On Hold Indefinitely generally is used by a company that wants to say it's gone without actually closing the door on it, if you want to say it's being delayed then you just say it's being delayed and a new release date will be forthcoming at some point.

It could always come back in force in a couple of years time, but then who knows what the future holds. A retail sim in two or three years time with a big shout-out yelling "now available for the first time, the sim that the professionals use" - that ought to sell quite well

Matt.

mickoo737 · Post by **mickoo737** » Mon May 22, 2006 4:27 pm

NeutronIC wrote:I'd much rather have both sims there, I can't speak for anyone else, but I'd definitely rather have both. Each was looking to cater for different aspects and the variety would have been good and completely agree with your one-horse-race comment.

That said, I do feel there are occasions when "pessimism" is actually "realism". On Hold Indefinitely generally is used by a company that wants to say it's gone without actually closing the door on it, if you want to say it's being delayed then you just say it's being delayed and a new release date will be forthcoming at some point.

It could always come back in force in a couple of years time, but then who knows what the future holds. A retail sim in two or three years time with a big shout-out yelling "now available for the first time, the sim that the professionals use" - that ought to sell quite well

Matt.

Cannot argue with your synopsis but look at it another way....theres always another way isnt there, yeah l hate them too

.

Theres only one word that gives any sort of indication of finality and thats 'indefinately', why was that word chosen, was it a mistake ? or could it have been chosen for a reason, remember many at PIE are involved with the community and the one thing that drives all devlopers crazy are the 'are we there yet posts !', by adding indefinately you killindefinitely that trail stone cold dead, it stop's you from having to keep coming to forum's to pick up chit chat, leaves more time to do real work.

Of course we can all debate the wording ad nausea and chances are none of us will be right, but with so many positive words in that statement I'm inclined to see them out weigh the one potentially negative one.

Call me misguided, call me what you like but as the old saying goes, it ain't over until the fat lady sings, PIE are still pushing ahead with the commercial platform, when that is 100% perfect it wouldn't take much to adapt for a community platform, surely ?.

To be completely clear on my stance, l am NDA'd to TMTS, l am not NDA'd to KRS and that is purely a personal ethical stance on my behalf, it has no reflection on which is the 'supposed' better sim, l don't care which gets here first or which is deemed the better, the latter is purely subjective and personal to what ever your whims are.

As you note each sim seemed to be pandering to separate sections of the community interest, much like MSTS and Trainz do.

Best

Michael

AndiS · Post by **AndiS** » Mon May 22, 2006 4:31 pm

I guess the problem is worse than many of us want to admit to themselves. (John D. take note, I'm negative here!)

The "real train simmers", those who care about realism in trains but not (so much) for good-looking graphics especially if it does not concern rolling stock, are a very small market. We are inbetween two mighty groups:

On the one hand the countless "gamers" who may be more or less interested in trains, but limit their attention (and patience and willingness to learn) to what it takes to run a model layout. More than once I read that people shy away from steam engines because they are more difficult to drive (even with AI fireman) etc.

On the other hand there are companies who save a lot of money if they can make part of their employee training virtual. Obviously they have more money than we all together, even more if you consider that only a small percentage of what you pay in the shop ends up in the pockets of developers.

However, there is little we can do about it. It was the same in model railways where a few people asked for super details and the companies who followed the call went bancrupt and/or raised their prices like mad.

Like Matt and many I am afraid that the pressure on Kuju to release a perfect product and later constantly improve it is gone now. The nice people who talk to us and who develop it now certainly will do their best but those with the money will not understand why they should put in an extra cent if MS was so successful in ducking and reaping in whatever comes. Widening the market and increasing their sales just means to bring in all those who never did virtual trainsimming before and these people definitely are on the other end of the spectrum from where my focus is.

Regarding on hold or postponed etc. I guess that TMTS will be cancelled when it is clear that KRS is a success. When it turns out to be buggy or otherwise unsatisfactory (which is not too likely) they will switch back to "to be delivered indefinitely".

I just held back with such speculation as it is not too polite to talk about money and likelihood of failure, but then again it is clear that both PIE and Kuju are companies and not charity organisations, even if marketing people sometimes pretend that.

GenmaSaotome · Post by **GenmaSaotome** » Mon May 22, 2006 4:58 pm

ianmacmillan wrote: Kuju are simply restricting the area to cut down on the time needed to make routes, buildings and rolling stock and also the signalling.

Once the initial sim is released, they will do versions for other countries.

I agree. But there could be areas where the flexibility for multi-region logic is needed. I hope they plan for that in their design. And that worries me because such foresight was not always present in MSTS.

Let them finish what they're doing, bring it to market, and then we'll see.

johndibben · Post by **johndibben** » Mon May 22, 2006 8:39 pm

This latest announcement is typical in that it presumably says something which we can argue about while saying nothing and leaving all options open .... which, of course, could deter anyone else from entering the market. The US, in particular, have been let down after years of promises.

Imagine Kuju saying 'We'll we're a bit busy right now, come back later'

Commercial suicide.

Who are these train operators who require a professional simulator havn't already got one anyway? Let me guess .... it's secret

The request to shut all the TMTS forums down says it all.

Cheers

John

johndibben · Post by **johndibben** » Mon May 22, 2006 9:06 pm

AndiS wrote:I guess the problem is worse than many of us want to admit to themselves. (John D. take note, I'm negative here!)

Like Matt and many I am afraid that the pressure on Kuju to release a perfect product and later constantly improve it is gone now.

Regarding on hold or postponed etc. I guess that TMTS will be cancelled when it is clear that KRS is a success. When it turns out to be buggy or otherwise unsatisfactory (which is not too likely) they will switch back to "to be delivered indefinitely".

The the third paragraph could be said to ensure the second isn't the case.

Concentration on one completely new sim with a possible reserve which would at least update MSTS.

Cheers

John

dkightley · Post by **dkightley** » Mon May 22, 2006 10:10 pm

I take a more businesslike view of the announcement.

The way I see it is that PI have made a business decision.

Continuation of development on TMTS will not bring in any money over the next six months or so, but concentrating on the commercial simulator will bring in lots of money as there is one or more contract in place. And I bet the contract has early completion bonuses....

Put yourself in their situation and you would make exactly the same decision.

Lets all hope that once the commercial product development is finished, then PI see there is still a possible market for TMTS....and TMTS will be reborn.

Electronic Arts, unlike Microsoft, believe there is a market for a new simulator....and the KRS project was born. This decision was, like the TMTS decision, made in the best interest of the company....to make a profit!

Crosstie · Post by **Crosstie** » Mon May 22, 2006 11:09 pm

Given that MT is bringing out two new routes shortly and other developers are still talking about future projects in the near to medium term, my gut tells me that we'll be pounding the rails with MSTS for quite some time to come.

Fine with me. I think there's still a lot of fun to be had messing around with "the old one".

I'll be as pleased as anyone when a new game shows up, but, meanwhile, there's still plenty of new and quality stuff to buy and download.

Reagards, Stu.

salopiangrowler · Post by **salopiangrowler** » Tue May 23, 2006 3:03 pm

johndibben wrote:
Who are these train operators who require a professional simulator havn't already got one anyway? Let me guess .... it's secret

Cheers

John

Union Pacific, hence the Yellow SD40-2 in the screen shot's

Tim also mentions it in the website that the proffesional veture is Union pacific.

rghaagsma · Post by **rghaagsma** » Tue May 23, 2006 5:38 pm

I'd settle for one of those professional training thingies...... for the price of a regular pc game that is.

So, any news on the Rail Simulator?? How's the weather, lets move on..