Compatability...

[johndibben]

What we need is a brand new sim with no support for Microsoft Train Simulator. When the new sim does come out, MSTS models will look out of date by a mile and the temptation to say that will do would be hard to resist.

Agreed and the only reason the stuff doesn't look out of date now is that there's nothing modern enough to compare it with.

I want a new sim and don't wan't to use old models simply to fill gaps. We had some awful first efforts with MSTS for that reason. Patience is the key.

As for conversions, it's a minefield, causes problems for authors although aloows old commercial stuff to be reused.

There's a real opportunity now to rid ourselves of the old attitudes which have shown not to work, wasted a great deal of time, held the community back with false promises and embrace a new and forward thinking sim.

Hope the opportunity isn't lost as it would benefit those of us who actually drive trainsims although it will take time to get going.

Cheers

John

[rwaceyw]

a converter-even if only for 3DC models-would allow MSTS models to "hold the fort" until new models arrive.

Fully agreed Murray. I'm all for new models, but don't want to throw everyones hard efforts for MSTS away just yet. I'd rather the models be used to hold a 'space' while higher quality ones are made.

David

[trainmad]

I agree with that Muztrem, I'd like new models as well, but there so many models going to waste if theres no converter available.

[decapod]

I want a new sim and don't wan't to use old models simply to fill gaps. We had some awful first efforts with MSTS for that reason. Patience is the key.

So do you believe that new models will suddenly be much better than the ones recently produced for MSTS? Those will be the first models we see in KRS.

I don't think peoples modelling or skinning techniques will change much.

Granted there may be a few extra features, but nothing much will change for a few years.

I'm told the real kuju sim looks similar to the TMTS one, the pics on the website were renderings, however if we can make the same gradual improvements to modelling with good support and flexible software from Kuju we will get close to the ideal.

[Julien]

I want a new sim and don't wan't to use old models simply to fill gaps. We had some awful first efforts with MSTS for that reason. Patience is the key.

So do you believe that new models will suddenly be much better than the ones recently produced for MSTS? Those will be the first models we see in KRS.

I don't think peoples modelling or skinning techniques will change much.

Granted there may be a few extra features, but nothing much will change for a few years.

Well it's not entirely true. As models were previously limited by the infamous 14000 vertices limit. It took a few years before people solved the problem. Same goes for the 1024*1024 maps that weren't that used in the early days of MSTS. There is definitely room for improvement with (i hope) the use of bump maps and a higher poly count.

[johndibben]

So do you believe that new models will suddenly be much better than the ones recently produced for MSTS? Those will be the first models we see in KRS.

I don't think peoples modelling or skinning techniques will change much.

Granted there may be a few extra features, but nothing much will change for a few years.

I'm told the real kuju sim looks similar to the TMTS one, the pics on the website were renderings, however if we can make the same gradual improvements to modelling with good support and flexible software from Kuju we will get close to the ideal.

From what we've been shown in renders, I'm assuming the default stuff will be way ahead of anything which can be shown in MSTS.

Much was made of TSM models being imported into TMTS. We know TSM doesn't include features many modellers regard as essential. That requires additional skills.

Hope KRS looks much better than TMTS as it was said that it looked like MSTS.

Doubt anyone actually knows much anyway and having read what people said they knew about MSTS2 and TMTS before they were cancelled, I doubt anyone's going to believe the same sources and will rely on Kuju as the only people who really know what they're talking about.

Cheers

John

[Timcourt1]

John,

"Much was made of TSM models being imported into TMTS. We know TSM doesn't include features many modellers regard as essential. That requires additional skills. "

Actually if you export a model from TSM and use an interim editor to add all the required materials hey presto we have one level playing field.

The TMTS objects in the screens were made in TSM/3dc and Gmax- Oh and I forgot, 3d studio max too.

Still I think that if you would wind the clock back a few years and compare what we had when MSTS first came out, this will be another resetting of the clock as it was back then.

I echo Pauls comments above with regards to this, there is alot of stuff ahead that developers need to get their heads around and it will most likely be a while before those results bear fruit, especially with new render methods and materials.

[steampsi]

Granted there may be a few extra features, but nothing much will change for a few years.

I echo Pauls comments above with regards to this, there is alot of stuff ahead that developers need to get their heads around and it will most likely be a while before those results bear fruit, especially with new render methods and materials.

Totally disagree. Instantly you have more polygons and more texturing options available.

Tools already exist to auto generate normal maps. With other new graphics options materials/skinning has the potential to almost instantly get better (normal maps, specular maps, cube map reflections, soft shadows).

Due more polys exisiting models can rapidly be enhanced. Eg I can quickly replace flat textures with polygons, as I'd like to do.

I have to think less about poly economy on new models too.

But some of this depends on the ability to use existing models (see 3D canvas thread)

[AndiS]

John, there are two logical inconsistencies here.

Hope KRS looks much better than TMTS as it was said that it looked like MSTS.

Doubt anyone actually knows much anyway and having read what people said they knew about MSTS2 and TMTS before they were cancelled, I doubt anyone's going to believe the same sources and will rely on Kuju as the only people who really know what they're talking about.

A) If you doubt that anyone knows much about MSTS2 and TMTS then why do you believe them when they say that TMTS looked like MSTS.
Why not say "KRS looks like MSTS". If you are dedicated enough, you could even model such figures as animated scenery items. There is only one per wallpaper, so most likely you could make a screenshot before MSTS crashes.

B) Certainly Kuju people know what they are talking about, but it is equally certain that what they are talking passes many filters. Certainly the bits of information which we do get are not wrong. But that is the same for TMTS.
The fact that (the consumer version of) TMTS is postponed does not mean that what was said about its details was less true. The important point is: Do does the information come from the developer or from some third party? The German Wikipedia claims to know about the German route to be included with KRS. Obviously not first hand information in my ranking.

[johndibben]

The TMTS objects in the screens were made in TSM/3dc and Gmax- Oh and I forgot, 3d studio max too.

Could see that TSM is the simplest, although I know someone's bound to disagree with even that, and people clearly didn't want to learn additional skills to provide content.

Still I think that if you would wind the clock back a few years and compare what we had when MSTS first came out, this will be another resetting of the clock as it was back then.

Possibly for third-party content developers although I believe they're not the centre of the universe either

Hope there'll always be room for amateur content as it's always been a fundamental aspect of the hobby. However, commercial add-ons increasingly dominate and Kuju could hire in people to produce them and guarrantee anything on the shelves. That would save a lot of hassle. MS was very easy going in that respect and quality and performance of add-ons were often poor.

There was no payware at first and a fair bit of resistance to it but that's gone, with unprofessional attitudes being the main problem.

I'm content to buy add-ons although am confident that default KRS will keep me and many others amused for quite some time

Cheers

John

[johndibben]

John, there are two logical inconsistencies here.

A) If you doubt that anyone knows much about MSTS2 and TMTS then why do you believe them when they say that TMTS looked like MSTS.

B) Certainly Kuju people know what they are talking about, but it is equally certain that what they are talking passes many filters. Certainly the bits of information which we do get are not wrong. But that is the same for TMTS.

A) Cos screenshots were posted Anyone in their right mind going to post screenshots inferior to the finished product?

B) Hardly, TMTS is cancelled and even that isn't clear as I know one person who's read it as only postponed. Also believe Kuju will deliver as they have in the past and there's no comparison between the two in my mind and never has been if you want to bore yourself with reading my posts on the subject over the last two years.

Logic chip inserted and functioning very well, thank you

Cheers

John