Asset Count Jumping

[npcleary]

I've hit a problem with the Asset count on my Forest of Dean route which I would appreciate some help on. Where I had an empty tile previously the Asset count was invariably 0. I now find I have an asset count on empty tiles of circa 480!

The first screenshot is of a "DEM'd" tile with no scenery/procedural assets added, showing an asset count of 488:



the second screenshot shows a tile with no DEM or scenery/procedural assets added, showing an asset count of 489:



I have checked to see if either tile has a .bin file in the relevant route folder - ("C:\Program Files\Rail Simulator\Content\Routes\20100c92-9fe7-4721-8690-a3618e525984\Scenery") and they don't.

I have switched between edit mode and play mode on each of these tiles to no effect yet on a tile adjacent to screenshot 1 switching from edit to play and back to edit reduced the asset count from 476 down to 33. I tried the same thing on a number of other empty tiles around the route with mixed results - some stayed at an asset count of 450 - 490, others reduced down to double digits. Restarting RS reverted those tiles that had reduced back to asset numbers of between 450 and 490.

I'd appreciate any input!
Thanks
Nick

[Acorncomputer]

Hi Nick

This is a problem I have encountered and have no answer to. I have made notes on this and other asset per tile problems at http://forums.uktrainsim.com/viewtopic. ... 18&t=82464

I have 99 tiles on my route and I made a note of the asset numbers on each one. I went back again and they had all reduced by about 350. I went back again and they shot back up to where they were before.
I have no explanation for this myself but perhaps someone can come up with an answer this time.

I note an improvement in the Mk2 upgrade in that before this, the assets numbers per tile rose dramatically when you moved from object placement mode to linear object placement mode. Now there is no change so it seems that the asset count in all modes is the correct one - except for the mysterious plus or minus 350 assets.

[npcleary]

Hi Nick

This is a problem I have encountered and have no answer to. I have made notes on this and other asset per tile problems at http://forums.uktrainsim.com/viewtopic. ... 18&t=82464

I have 99 tiles on my route and I made a note of the asset numbers on each one. I went back again and they had all reduced by about 350. I went back again and they shot back up to where they were before.
I have no explanation for this myself but perhaps someone can come up with an answer this time.

I note an improvement in the Mk2 upgrade in that before this, the assets numbers per tile rose dramatically when you moved from object placement mode to linear object placement mode. Now there is no change so it seems that the asset count in all modes is the correct one - except for the mysterious plus or minus 350 assets.

Geoff,

Thanks for the prompt reply, I had a feeling you would be first on this one! I had been following your "Asset Count" thread but must admit to forgetting the relevant bit. It is all a bit baffling, particularly what happens when I go edit/play/edit and then reload the route! It is the way that edit/play/edit does not work on all the tiles that concerns me, also the way that your variation is circa 350 whereas mine is 450+ . I have only tried edit/play/edit on about 20 of my 500+ tiles but the reduction effect is almost random. I also generated a new test route using the same template but asset counts on that remained at 0.

I'll just have to remember to deduct 450 as I lat scenery trees and hope that Derek or Adam can come up with some explanation of what is happening.

Nick

[Acorncomputer]

Hi Nick

It is a little difficult keeping your asset per tile count down to 1000 when there are 400 or so there before you even start.

I have still tried to keep as near 1000 as I can but I find that a count of between 1000 and 2000 seems OK even if that is not a completely accurate figure.

[npcleary]

Hi Nick

It is a little difficult keeping your asset per tile count down to 1000 when there are 400 or so there before you even start.

I have still tried to keep as near 1000 as I can but I find that a count of between 1000 and 2000 seems OK even if that is not a completely accurate figure.

Hi Geoff,

Following your earlier thread and Derek's various comments I have been keeping religiously to below 1500 - with so much vegetation that has been difficult although the IoW asstes have helped and I've no doubt that Derek's latest offerings will also make things easier. Word of caution to everyone - don't pick a route with "Forest" in the name! This 450 "extra" assets does worry me though...

[Acorncomputer]

Hi Nick

One thing I learned is that forests look different from the track than they do from the air. In my first attempts I placed the trees too close to each other and although it looked just right from the air, it was really too dense when looking from the train. I had to get rid of quite a few items so I stripped back the centres of forests and generally thinned out the trees lining the track and although from the air it looks unrealistically sparse, from low level the view was dense enough to prevent looking too far into the forest from the train.

I used 3D trees near the track, sparsely, and as many single asset forests as I could away from the track working on the basis that one forest asset overlapping others was better than many single trees that do not overlap. I also used textures much more in open areas, (avoiding the very brightly coloured ones!) which work very well with the forest environment and at a distance can make up for the lack of trees. Placing the forests at an angle also helps on hillsides, at a distance.

I feel sure that someone will improve on large area tree placement soon so things can only get better.

[npcleary]

Hi Geoff,

I had the same issue with density and now try to focus tree planting from the train view rather than a helicopter view. Texturing certainly helps in "blurring" the space between forests and also, as you mentioned, placing trees at an angle. Once I got used to the fact that trees at the back of a forest well away from the track were often in midair it worked well. I've also now used the new KRS tool - http://forums.uktrainsim.com/viewtopic. ... 6#p1038056 - and that has worked very well on those tiles - and I've got more than a few - where there is nothing but trees. Using the IoW forest and experimenting with the density, as allowed by the tool, has really made a difference. I'm now planting complete tiles, including textures, in one go.

I've had another look at this extra 450+ assets I'm getting and it really is not consistent from tile to tile leaving me with the problem of "do I deduct 450 or don't I ?". Here's hoping that Derek or Adam join the thread!

[Acorncomputer]

Hi Nick

Thanks for the link to KRStool. I have been a bit occupied with trying out the 3D Modelling recently that I missed this one.
I have tried to install it a couple of times now but I keep getting a Windows error message so I will wait until I get home and have another go on computer No 2.

[npcleary]

Geoff

I'm running it under XP SP3 and had to tweak the registry as outlined in the thread to get it to work. A lot of people have had problems with installing it but well worth the effort.

[Acorncomputer]

Hi Nick

Failed installation on computer No 1 but probably can fix it based on the KRStool thread notes.

Partially successful on computer No 2. No installation problems as such but KRStools thinks the RS folder is on drive D when in fact it on drive C. I have posted a query on the KRStool thread and I expect someone will tell me how to redirect the poor little thing.

This program looks very useful and deserves a good test drive.

My installation problems highlight the differences that people can experience when trying to install programs. We are obviously not all singing from the same song book although on the face of it we are all running the same operating systems. What a nightmare for developers trying to cover all possible configurations for the installation of their programs.

[npcleary]

Update. I'm still getting this asset count issue and, apart from Geoff confirming he has the same issue, have not had any feedback. I've cross posted into the RS forum but not had anything back. I'm just a bit worried that I'm going to upload a route in a couple of months that is completely screwed! If someone can explain the discrepancies I'd appreciate it, even if it only confirms that I'm being a grumpy old man for no reason....

Another illustration:

Tile -000002 +000006 on initial load in editor mode:


Asset count is 1170

I then cycle through "play" and back to "edit":



The asset count has dropped by 431. That's one issue. The other is the fact that I am showing an asset count of 739 when there don't appear to be any assets on the tile. I've checked the tile's loft, road, track and scenery .bin files and there is no data in any of them. There are no tunnels under the tile and no hidden "underground" assets.

Any ideas anyone?

[Acorncomputer]

Hi Nick

This is still a mystery to me but there is something else I have noticed. Sometimes assets from an adjacent tile get included in the tile count for the tile you are in although this is not always a repeatable situation.
What we need really is to work out from the raw data what assets have been placed on a tile and not rely on the screen count in the World Editor. That way we can be sure of the actual situation and direct our grumpiness to something else.

[npcleary]

Hi Geoff,

Using my latest example as a test I have checked the track, loft, and scenery .bin files for the relevant tile and they are all empty. There is no road .bin file for the tile. The only other .bin files for the tile are in the MixMap and Terrain folders but I don't think they are relevant. I can't find any reference to tiles in the tracks.bin file, the lofts.bin file or the roads.bin file. Where next?

[Acorncomputer]

Hi Nick

Opening up some of the .bin files in the various routes folders with Mike Simpsons Tools does reveal the instructions for placement of assets so this is not too much of a mystery but with a list of hundreds at least for each kind of asset, it needs a tool program of some sort to whizz through and count the assets. I do note that if you run a route check in MS Tools, it seems to run through three sets of tile.bin files and is clearly checking on what assets have been used as it lists them at the end. Perhaps Mike could create an alternative search to give results on a tile by tile basis which would give us our answers.

A thought has struck me that the number of assets on a tile will be made up of the various categories such as scenery, terrain, mixmap, loft, etc, so if at some stage in loading the game some of the categories are missed from the count and remain missing throughout use, this would explain why perhaps only the scenery count is included sometimes and everything at other times.

On further thought, the asset count in the World Editor increases as assets are loaded so this is counting on placement rather than from the source documents direct.