RS Worries

General discussion about Rail Simulator that doesn't really fit in to any specific category. A good place to start if you're not sure what category it should fit in to as well.

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paulz6
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Re: RS Worries

Post by paulz6 »

mpeffers wrote:I can recall being told things from RS1 would work on RS2 and that existing RS1 users wouldn't have to pay the full price, but will it work the other way too - will freeware stock made for RS2 (but without features built in that'll prevent it from working with RS1) work on RS1, or am I going to forced to fork out extra money for a new version every 3 years.
An interesting question. It will probably work like the rest of the IT industry. Backwards compatibility allows the software to move forwards without rendering existing developments defunct. Expecting forwards compatibility does not allow technology to evolve.
bigvern wrote:Terrain texturing is particularly slow as every tile has to be hand painted, there's no ready painted tile squares as per MSTS and no copy/paste function as per TRS, not to mention it is virtually impossible to get a smooth blend between the different texture types.
The MSTS pre-painted tile squares would be very limiting IMHO - not something I would like to see a return to. I do agree better control of the terrain texturing would help.
bigvern wrote:However the ability to run out parallel "lofts" has made the process of doing lineside fencing etc. a bit quicker. However once you start laying lofts to follow the terrain it's still a bit hitty/missy whether you suddenly end up with a section sticking up at an angle, making field hedge/wall placement more time consuming than it should be.
Lofts are a great idea but I agree the control of them is a bit clumbsy making loft placement more time consuming then if could be. Being able to layout a straight loft that automatically fits the terrain by simply clicking on the start point and the end point is an idea I have mooted in the past.
smarty2 wrote:Interesting thread, i think there are valid points been made by all the contributors so far, i must say though i am liking 3d trains approach by including a low res versions for free, and definitely think all the commercial developers should introduce this strategy as it would be key to the success of RS imo. It is something DT appear to be leaning towards partially.
It's a good model, as it doesn't exclusively lock out all users, allowing them to slowly improve their experience according to their pocket. That DT class 25 looks good for a low-poly freeware model!
smarty2 wrote:i am concerned about the price of some addons however as has been well stated by Paul, i see some stuff in the pipeline for single assets costing £11! I think it is too much and i wont be paying through the nose for stuff i do not think is good value no matter what the credentials, as an opposite i think Richard Armstrongs stuff is very reasonably priced in comparison £3 for a sound set has given a lot of ooomph to my experience with the sim and has made it more an involving experience.
The point here is that if you buy all these 3GBP/5GBP sounds sets just for the default stock out there from the various commercial providers, the cost adds up to quite a bit. Are we going to get class 66/158 individual sounds packs too? Perhaps 5GBP for replacement sound sets that covers all the default stock may seem reasonable.

The commercial pricing dilemma is that the existing user base is so small to be able to make a reasonable income from it. Pricing commercial products to high is not going to increase that user base. Lower pricing is more likely to increase the existing user base leading to higher long term sales.

Also high pricing for mini-products with short development times is not going to induce the best of feelings in those developing the products with the longer development times. People want more routes!
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paulz6
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Re: RS Worries

Post by paulz6 »

bigvern wrote:Until such time as the freeware object (and train) builders step up to the plate and release content to the extent that has been done for MSTS/TRS, I will source the necessary objects where I can.
There are 155 scenery objects in the RS scenery folder compared to 840 in the MSTS scenery folder. Thats quite a good number comparing the length of time RS has been released. And with so many UK default items in the core product, are we really that badly placed?
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Re: RS Worries

Post by jbilton »

growler37 wrote:
jbilton wrote:Hi
Fingers crossed for 'something wonderful'.... the Train Simulating world in general needs it.
Generally its flagging, with less and less interest shown by the week.
Still getting lots of new users of MSTS, based on the same old questions being reposted in the forums, but the future of the hobby is not bright at the moment.
Cheers
Jon
Hi
I cant vouch for MSTS because i dont use anymore,but RS is looking as healthy as it has ever been, new products being produced some great freeware routes on here to download,more in the pipeline,RW just around the corner,what more could you ask for!
I must assure the creator of this thread,that there are no easy routes,the RS editor is easier to use yes, but the time and effort is huge,and any route produced fictional or factual deserves the highest praise because someone has stuck with it,put in the time, and uploaded it to sites like this for people like you and me to enjoy.
i have said before it took me 14 months to build the West Somerset Route for RS,thats a lot of man hours,so the effort with the rs editor is probably more than with the old MSTS route builder,but the end result is much much better IMHO,the RS editor has given the ability of almost anyone to be able to create a route,if they put the effort in,this is fantastic for the hobby.
Finally i must say in order to see what RS and soon RW has to offer you must run it and try it for yourself, then you can base your views on first hand information.
With Kind Regards
Kevin
Hi Kevin
I was basing the flagging on the number of posts to the UK forums, or rather lacking.
I keep abreast of all the forums.
Generally most new users this year are to MSTS, where as most KRS questions are cries for help,from those wondering why they've just lost the lot.
I think the reduction of UKTS Roadshows also reflect this
I do think you're WSR looks a treat, and you must be congratulated for your patience, but the commercial MSTS version still looks more realistic to me.
Cheers
Jon
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AndiS
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Re: RS Worries

Post by AndiS »

My 2 cents: Don't vouch and don't worry, simply do your thing.

With the dismiss of MSTS2 and the dust settling around WOS, things became simple and potentially productive.

RW will not be all the wonders we listed in the notorious threads, but it will fix a few nasty things, like the oceanic version divide.

I am extremely glad to see some renowned modellers starting to convert their stuff, and the Blender exporter being revived etc.

If you love freeware, create or support creation. If you love payway, buy or create or promote. No reason for camps to even touch, other than in symbiosis.

Will things produced for version 2 run on version 1? Never. Because otherwise, version 2 would be superfluous. If there is some shader X and some modeller uses it on some model and this shader X is not supported by version 1, then - surprise - the model will not look the same? Will it crash or disappear or look strange? We will find out, unless They bestow us with explicit documentation.

Will there be a version 3 in 3 years from now, and will we have to pay for it? Hey, They don't even know under which name They will operate then! However, there is zero impact on my hobby from such things. After release of version 2, I will pay for the upgrade (sooner or later - my choice), then enjoy it for a while, get some free patches, most likely; and in 3 years, we will all re-evaluate our lives.

Is changing over from MSTS to KRS1 or KRS2 a good idea? Try it our yourself. You risk about £10 plus some of your sparetime. If you even consider it, then MSTS does not keep you busy during all your sparetime, so there is some that you can muster for the experiment. If the experiment fails, you can still use the access time to edit a 500 pages book "KRS - pro and contra" - filled by this forum alone.
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simuk
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Re: RS Worries

Post by simuk »

Hmm, maybe the Voyager was sold too cheap. I'll speak with a few people and see if we can put the price up.





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paulz6
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Re: RS Worries

Post by paulz6 »

How long will it be before we see the 5GBP re-skin pack!

I'd hate to see the comparative cost of the Bristol - Exeter route.
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Re: RS Worries

Post by mpeffers »

AndiS wrote:Will things produced for version 2 run on version 1? Never. Because otherwise, version 2 would be superfluous. If there is some shader X and some modeller uses it on some model and this shader X is not supported by version 1, then - surprise - the model will not look the same? Will it crash or disappear or look strange? We will find out, unless They bestow us with explicit documentation.
To look at Trainz again, there's a new release more or less every year these days it seems. Between the two versions I have (2004 and 2006) there were really very few changes. I only got 2006 and because somehow my 2004 disk corrupted, but before then when there were freeware releases geared towards 2009 without the new features, you could supposedly get them to work in 2004 but it took a lot of fiddling with the config. I personally never succeeded. The cynic in me looks at that and says the only reason backward compatability wasn't included to some extent (and from my visits to the UKTrainz Forum, I saw a large proportion of the 2006 models released that could be edited to work in 2004) was because Auran wanted to squeeze more money out of us. I'm fairly sure Trainz2006 could have easily been Trainz2004 SP5 and as a result I've not bothered buying any of the editions since. It looks worrying like RS is going down the same route, in which case this hobby's going to get very expensive...
Awaiting a computer that'll run KRS... *twiddles thumbs*
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Re: RS Worries

Post by jbilton »

Hi
Not one to give commercial advice, but generally its best to charge as much as possible when first released.
Then drop the price, when the initial sales have dried up.
Finally bundle it with some other releases, add a bit of 'new' content and sell it all over again.
I do think that with the current market, it will be difficult to commercially produce a route, and make a profit.
Cheers
Jon
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Mike10
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Re: RS Worries

Post by Mike10 »

mpeffers wrote:(and from my visits to the UKTrainz Forum, I saw a large proportion of the 2006 models released that could be edited to work in 2004)
The reason being that if you removed all the things which enabled the TRS2006 features you ended up with a TRS2004 spec model, which unsurprisingly, then worked in TRS2004. I think you will find that something very similar may very well turn out to be the case for RS/RS:RW.

Mike.
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Re: RS Worries

Post by RSderek »

No wonder users posts dry up after reading half of this.
:)

Some users seem a little tired and jaded, of course it could be just because of the bank holiday monday weather.
It's a good thing we are full of boom, kapow and shazam!

Cheer up lads there is some cracking stuff in mix and some wonderful locos, routes and scenarios being created, and I'm not just talking about RWs.
Play it or don't, buy it or don't, or just go out and do something else that makes you happy.

This is how we feel about the future...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lOKbFJWQAC8

best regards

Derek
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Re: RS Worries

Post by MikeTrams »

Got tired of biscuits then Derek? I must admit the chocolate corn flake ones are the best with banana yoghurt! :P

Didn't know RSDL was good at dancing, must be part of the modern criteria these days... :P

Cheers,
Mike
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Re: RS Worries

Post by AndiS »

mpeffers wrote:To look at Trainz again, there's a new release more or less every year these days it seems. Between the two versions I have (2004 and 2006) there were really very few changes. ...
The point is, that you first need to examine how much KRS follows the Trainz line before complaining. We only know about KRS1 and KRS2 and here, they said that they will be fully compatible (to the extend possible, i.e., version 1 models working in version 2).

The people behind KRS have avoided several Trainz mistakes, so it would be only be fair to at least consider the chance that they do not repeat all of them! Therefore, while I cannot know what will happen in 2011 and 2013, I am 100% sure that worrying about KRS3 is a thing for 2011, not 2009.

In 2009, I recommend to either stick with MSTS or Trainz and not clutter non-MSTS/Trainz forums with theories of what would be if KRS was sold by Auran, or join the KRS train and get productive. And I refer to KRS1, no (even) knowing what makes Derek. I will cheer when I see something cheerful (which may happen in June), and I will worry if I see something worrying (which may happen in 2011).
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Re: RS Worries

Post by nwallace »

Having just gone through all my games and found the ones that don't work in Vista and which ones need messed around with to get working, my main concern about RailWorks is whether or not it's going to work out the box in Windows 7.

My new machine has a HD 4850 while my previous machine (which will still be used for non-vista 64 stuff) had an X1950 which I bought last year after discovering RS would push the original card (can't even remember what it is now) past the safe temperature. Had RS running at full settings and looks even better than before.

I don't think I will bother with the hassle of MSTS though, after getting Rally Trophy and Grand Prix 3 working I realised what graphic levels were available at the time and just how poor MSTS actually is.

Oddly GP3 works but GP4 won't play ball, I guess it's just going to have to be on the old box.
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paulz6
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Re: RS Worries

Post by paulz6 »

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Last edited by paulz6 on Tue May 05, 2009 7:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: RS Worries

Post by Blackpatch »

Not much point in getting stressed because we only know a fraction of what June will bring. I'm looking forward to further announcements that put meat on the bones and I'm very hopeful that RS2 will indeed move the sim in the right direction.

BP :D
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