Atomic Systems

Well I finally got a copy of KRS in the mail the yesterday, so I downloaded the dev tools and stuff to try out and fiddle with the editors. Anyway I was reading the EULA for the dev tools and I noticed something interesting in Section 5;

5. You must ensure that the Content:

5.1 does not contain or include any work or assets taken from any Rail Simulator game, such as train models. However, the Content can reference assets which are present in Rail Simulator (2007 Edition), provided that this is done in accordance with any documentation issued by us;

5.2 does not infringe the intellectual property rights of any person;

5.3 does not circumvent any copy protection feature of Rail Simulator (2007 Edition);

5.4 does not, to your knowledge, operate with any other simulator except (current and future versions of) Rail Simulator; and

Now if you read that section essentially any work created for KRS must be unique and created for KRS and as such essentially rules out any possibility of converting any content you may have in MSTS to KRS. Even if you are the owner of the original source material.
So to be in full accordance with the EULA your work must be original and must be created specifically for KRS. If you have even a simple model of a house or tree that was created for MSTS you can't just re-export it as the asset was created for a different sim and unless you redo it from scratch you are in violation of the EULA.
While I doubt Kuju is going to go after the small guy who's done a few free-ware models and has made no money, it is still something that would be possible.
I realize there was probably a desire by Kuju to protect work being done for the sim and to promote KRS, but it also raises all sorts of legal possibilities that could impact a lot of people.
Something to think about.

Cheers,
James.

Actually, luckily, your wrong, section 5 has been bludgeoned to death here, use the search function to look for section 5 and then read the dozens of posts, arguing the finer points, but basically what that says is that you can do what you like freeware, do what you like payware but give them two weeks notice, use models you made for any sim you want, past present and future, but you must not use any RS items in another sim, quite how you'd do that is beyond me and would require some clever reverse engineering, but RS must stay RS, the rest remains unchanged.

Find the original thread and get a large cup of coffee and read all about it.

Regards

mickoo737 wrote:Actually, luckily, your wrong, section 5 has been bludgeoned to death here, use the search function to look for section 5 and then read the dozens of posts, arguing the finer points, but basically what that says is that you can do what you like freeware, do what you like payware but give them two weeks notice, use models you made for any sim you want, past present and future, but you must not use any RS items in another sim, quite how you'd do that is beyond me and would require some clever reverse engineering, but RS must stay RS, the rest remains unchanged.

Find the original thread and get a large cup of coffee and read all about it.

Regards

That may be so, but you still agree to a license agreement that is legally binding and would/will hold up in a court of law, however a forum post won't. All you would have to prove in court is that the same model/texture/shape file is being re-used and you're in violation of the EULA for the dev tools.
Looking at the EULA the reference to the monetary value is in reference to the release of commercial products and the waiving of the fee. It has nothing to do with the re-use of art assets. Anyway like I said till section 5 of the EULA is modified I would be hesitant to convert any stuff over to KRS as a good lawyer would screw you.

You don’t need a lawyer you just need to read the documentation carefully.

"5.1 does not contain or include any work or assets taken from any Rail Simulator game, such as train models. However, the Content can reference assets which are present in Rail Simulator (2007 Edition), provided that this is done in accordance with any documentation issued by us."

What this means that you may not take any models or textures that were included in another game like MSTS and use them for RS models or textures. The 3D models and textures I built FOR MSTS are not FROM MSTS so it is OK for me to port my models and my textures to the RS program.

If I took the default MSTS Dash9 model or the textures for it and used that model or textures in any content I create for RS then that clearly would be a violation of the agreement and rightly so.

A good lawyer will always find a way to screw you, he does not need an EULA. Since anything anyone creates is copyrighted by him automatically by law, whenever you produce anything, you must be prepared to show that each little piece you use is your own creation or you have the full right to use it for the given purpose.

This has nothing to do with train simulation or any particular product. And I agree, it can be tiring.

by RSderek on 19 Nov 2007 14:57

alalou wrote:
If I got any 3D model (in this case in 3D canvas) that I made to be use in MSTS, can I convert it to use it in RS? Do I violate anything regarding the license?

What you do with your model is up to you and no concern to us.

regards

derekMy views are my own and do not reflect those of EA, Kuju Entertainment or RSDL.
RSderek
Been on the forums for a while

Posts: 278
Joined: 10 Sep 2007 12:19
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ged

Ged, thanks for pointing that out, I hadn't seen that post by Derek. Having re-read the EULA several times now, I think I understand the intent of the way it's written. What they're trying to do is to stop someone from developing a tool to simply convert models/assests and so on from a simulator such as MSTS or Trainz and simply exporting it into KRS. However if you are the owner of the original model you may re-export your model so that it works with KRS using the correct procedures. As such it then becomes an asset for KRS.
The problem with legalese is that it's often not written in such a clear manner and there is always a grey zone, and you want to make sure you're not in violation. You don't want to spend months building a route only to find out that since it contains some are assest which you originally built for something else, that you can't release the route.

James.

Another 3rd of December 2001'er resurfaces after three years

Another MSTS pioneer who gave us the Modern England route when all we had was the S&C.

Welcome back

johndibben wrote:Another 3rd of December 2001'er resurfaces after three years

Another MSTS pioneer who gave us the Modern England route when all we had was the S&C.

Welcome back

Ah I remember it well, so many years ago. (wait has it been that long all ready?)

I'm hoping that with KRS I'll be motivated to go back and do more UK stuff again, especially in the BR era. I've had a look at the UK routes and they're not too bad at all. Fairly impressed with the HST and the other BR loco's, though we're definitely missing some obvious ones like the Class 33 and 08, and certainly the DMU 101....... I don't know whether I got lucky but KRS installed ok, and so far haven't had a lot of the problems that other have.
I've also had a chance to build an activity or two on the GWML using the BR loco's. Too bad the GWML went to Oxford instead of Bristol and Swindon, so I might have to change that if someone isn't already doing it.....

Good to be back....

James.

The 08 will be coming soon, I know I keep saying it but it will... on texturing the cab now.

http://forums.uktrainsim.com/viewtopic. ... 22&t=77439

The 101 is a side project I plan to start in the new year (of course some one might beat me to it)

I also have a msts class 37 that Mark Shipman made and has given me permission to export into Rail Simulator.

I have no plans to set up a cab, but am willing upload the converted files for someone else to have a go and making the magic work, any one interested?

regards

Derek

RSderek wrote:The 08 will be coming soon, I know I keep saying it but it will... on texturing the cab now.

http://forums.uktrainsim.com/viewtopic. ... 22&t=77439

The 101 is a side project I plan to start in the new year (of course some one might beat me to it)

I also have a msts class 37 that Mark Shipman made and has given me permission to export into Rail Simulator.

I have no plans to set up a cab, but am willing upload the converted files for someone else to have a go and making the magic work, any one interested?

regards

Derek

Oh my! That 08 looks very nice indeed, can't wait for it to be done. Definitely looking forward to you getting that done. Plus a 101 and a 37 in the not too distant future.... Definitely looking forward to all those as well, they should go very well with the activities I plan on doing for the GWML set in the 80's and early 90's.

James.