How RS can't simulate even basic train movements

[jamespetts]

It might be asking too much of RSDL to add that sort of scripting capability to their product, but we do not know what sort of hooks have been left in the code to allow for future enhancements.

One can hardly say that it is "asking to much of RSDL" to add functionality (timetabled scenarios, and all the features necessary to make them work properly) that there can be no doubt was specifically planned, and was clearly and unequivocally promised as one of Rail Simulator's key defining features.

I think we should be drawing these sort of things to their attention, but equally, if the sim can't handle it, what's the point in crying over it?

I don't think that anybody ever suggested that "crying over" the deficiencies is productive: that was certainly not the point of the thread. Either the problems are fixed in time, and all is well, or they are not fixed, and I and many others like me will cease to have an interest in using Rail Simulator (much as I hardly ever use Train Simulator), and the commercial viability of Rail Simulator will be at stake.

But, as far as priorities go, I'll put scripting well down the list; I agree with BigVern, until content creators are able to add new items to the game, it's very limiting. I don't want to populate my small plot of North Kent with uprooted Somerset items, much as I would have been loath to have filled it full of the Settle and Carlisle stonework.

No doubt the 3d exporter is a very high priority, higher even than the signalling and operational deficiencies, but that is irrelevant, since it is being developed by somebody other than RSDL. Apart from fixing the major stability issues/bugs, I can't imagine what could possibly be a higher priority for RSDL than fixing the seven critical operational issues (that is, the six identified at the beginning of this thread, and one of the two (route locking) from the "objective criticisms" thread, the other one being duplicated in the list from this thread).

Bear in mind that different people specialise in different things, and one cannot, for example, sensibly have the artists working on coding or vice versa, so priorities only make sense in so far as they are priorities for a particular person or team. The fact that Derek is working on an 08, for example, doesn't hold up people working on the signalling because Derek would never work on the signalling, and the signalling people (if there are any of the original people from Kuju who did signalling left) wouldn't know how to do 3d models and textures.

[Scritty]

I agree, the network building capabilities were pretty explicit in the advertising in the games lead up.

The attitude now from some that "Well it wasn't the thing that attracted me to the game" is fine, as long as it is also appreciated that it was a feature that attracted many, myself included.

It should also be appreciated that it isn't "alright" to advertise features, then not make good on them.

I have Sat Nav in my car, as someone with the best part of 700,000 driving miles all over the UK over the last 25 years behind me I could say "I don't need it" - and it is fair to say I never use it, but many do, and if it was advertised and then not present, I would stand alongside those that required this feature, and protest at it's absence.

I don't like the "I'm allright jack" attitude.

Like a couple of other posters have said here, if decent networking and AI simming is not possible in time, then I doubt whether I will continue to use this product.

I would much prefer that it was. I have got to quite enjoy the driving side, and the graphics have grown on me over the past 5 weeks, Simsig would certainly be no competition for a fully realised Rail Sim (in my opinion) so I very much hope the promises and potential are realised, and I will help if possible.

So power to the developers, and fingers crossed


Regards

Paul Clarke

[jamespetts]

We are here and reading the threads over lunch, mind you not sure that burger king was a good idea.

What was the question again?

It's good that you are reading. Thank you for posting.

The questions were: (1) are there definite plans to address all six of the issues in the original post, plus route locking/interlocking such that realistic timetabled scenarios will be possible; and (2) where on the list of priorities for whoever it is that deals with the core programming logic does that come?

Really, I have no idea why RSDL doesn't release a software roadmap, giving details of all the things planned to be released in the future, the sequence, and an approximate timescale (i.e., to the nearest quarter), updated regularly. I don't understand what possible advantage that there could be to keeping everybody in the dark about the plans for future development. Saying that RSDL will be developing Rail Simulator for "a long time to come", but not actually saying anywhere what that development involves is rather odd.

On a related topic, as to documentation, I understand that it takes a great deal of time to write documentation, but it would save an awful lot of difficulties for the users, and an awful lot of bad PR for you, if you were to explain exactly which bits of documentation are and are not complete, and approximately when you plan to release complete documentation for the things that are not yet complete. It is extremely confusing to users not knowing whether any given aspect of the game is completely documented or not, and not knowing whether, and, if so, when, additional documentation on the subject will become available.

[Scritty]

why not just uninstall it!
these threads seem totaly pointless to me,nothing anyone writes here will, make any difference to the majority of people who are enjoying KRS.
surely your best bet would be something like SIG SIM if you like DOS programes with a collection of dots moving around a black background.
Also if as you say KRS is "worthless" why not uninstall it,wipe your hands and move on.
remember that KRS is aimed at the general public as was MSTS TRAINZ and what MSTS2 will be aimed at! because like it or not!
if train sim developers relied on train sim enthusiasts for there sales it would totaly flop,
i think i read somewere that train simmers make up only 1% of total sales.
In short ,the majority of people who will buy KRS dont give a monkeys about accuracy as long as they can drive trains.
Thats why stores in my locality "KRS "is along with" Call of duty" the best seller at the moment, and in my oppinion deserves to be!
with kind regards
kevin

What a pompous reply!

Lets examine the logic.

"You bought something based on several years advertising and of its contents, and claims of its capabilities - from the developers and publishers no less !.
It fails to deliver on several key and measurable points - but who cares - shut up and stop whining 'cause it's got the bits in it that were important to me"

The comment about SigSim betrays a misunderstanding of the original posters intent. It is exactly because these DOS based sims are so limited and uninvolving graphically, that RS's promises were so poignant.

That is arrogance on a quite staggeringly selfish scale - and not really worthy of someone who has supported this genre for so long.

Why should I move on from a product that failed to deliver on its promises?
I have, and will continue to lobby for the inclusion of these elements, and to mimic your playground rhetoric as a retort,

"Why don't you just stay out of these threads you're not going to change our opinions, and to tell people that they are wrong to complain about a product which does not include promised and advertised content serves no purpose and will convert no-one"

I believe in internet parlance, one who subscribes to a well defined thread solely to counter argue in a "nay saying" fashion is known as a "troll"

After a 40 minute search through rail sites and google, I can't find any evidence for you "1%" remark - would you care to elucidate?

If not, then lets hope these threads can form part of a positive discourse between the consumer and the continuing development of the game, perhaps adding new features that even you will end up appreciating.

Regards

Paul Clarke

[bigvern]

SimSig does what it says on the tin, it simulates the day to day operation of an IECC or for some of the later versions a more traditional Panel Box. It does what it does quite superbly and doesn't need to look any prettier...

And it's not a DOS programme either!

Perhaps if the original Kuju programmers (as opposed to the guys at RSDL now trying to sort things out) had played SimSig a few times to enhance their understanding, the signalling in game would not be in the rather sorry state that currently exists.

[growler37]

why not just uninstall it!
these threads seem totaly pointless to me,nothing anyone writes here will, make any difference to the majority of people who are enjoying KRS.
surely your best bet would be something like SIG SIM if you like DOS programes with a collection of dots moving around a black background.
Also if as you say KRS is "worthless" why not uninstall it,wipe your hands and move on.
remember that KRS is aimed at the general public as was MSTS TRAINZ and what MSTS2 will be aimed at! because like it or not!
if train sim developers relied on train sim enthusiasts for there sales it would totaly flop,
i think i read somewere that train simmers make up only 1% of total sales.
In short ,the majority of people who will buy KRS dont give a monkeys about accuracy as long as they can drive trains.
Thats why stores in my locality "KRS "is along with" Call of duty" the best seller at the moment, and in my oppinion deserves to be!
with kind regards
kevin

What a pompous reply!

Lets examine the logic.

"You bought something based on several years advertising and of its contents, and claims of its capabilities - from the developers and publishers no less !.
It fails to deliver on several key and measurable points - but who cares - shut up and stop whining 'cause it's got the bits in it that were important to me"

The comment about SigSim betrays a misunderstanding of the original posters intent. It is exactly because these DOS based sims are so limited and uninvolving graphically, that RS's promises were so poignant.

That is arrogance on a quite staggeringly selfish scale - and not really worthy of someone who has supported this genre for so long.

Why should I move on from a product that failed to deliver on its promises?
I have, and will continue to lobby for the inclusion of these elements, and to mimic your playground rhetoric as a retort,

"Why don't you just stay out of these threads you're not going to change our opinions, and to tell people that they are wrong to complain about a product which does not include promised and advertised content serves no purpose and will convert no-one"

I believe in internet parlance, one who subscribes to a well defined thread solely to counter argue in a "nay saying" fashion is known as a "troll"

After a 40 minute search through rail sites and google, I can't find any evidence for you "1%" remark - would you care to elucidate?

If not, then lets hope these threads can form part of a positive discourse between the consumer and the continuing development of the game, perhaps adding new features that even you will end up appreciating.

Regards

Paul Clarke

the ivantile and spitefull retoric in this post will not get a reply although i would love to.
instead i have reported it to the mods.

[MaxFreak]

the ivantile and spitefull retoric in this post will not get a reply although i would love to.
instead i have reported it to the mods.

Should be ...

the infantile and spiteful rhetoric in this post will not get a reply although i would love to.
instead i have reported it to the mods.



~A~

[mickoo737]

why not just uninstall it!
these threads seem totaly pointless to me,nothing anyone writes here will, make any difference to the majority of people who are enjoying KRS.
surely your best bet would be something like SIG SIM if you like DOS programes with a collection of dots moving around a black background.
Also if as you say KRS is "worthless" why not uninstall it,wipe your hands and move on.
remember that KRS is aimed at the general public as was MSTS TRAINZ and what MSTS2 will be aimed at! because like it or not!
if train sim developers relied on train sim enthusiasts for there sales it would totaly flop,
i think i read somewere that train simmers make up only 1% of total sales.
In short ,the majority of people who will buy KRS dont give a monkeys about accuracy as long as they can drive trains.
Thats why stores in my locality "KRS "is along with" Call of duty" the best seller at the moment, and in my oppinion deserves to be!
with kind regards
kevin

What a pompous reply!

Lets examine the logic.

"You bought something based on several years advertising and of its contents, and claims of its capabilities - from the developers and publishers no less !.
It fails to deliver on several key and measurable points - but who cares - shut up and stop whining 'cause it's got the bits in it that were important to me"

The comment about SigSim betrays a misunderstanding of the original posters intent. It is exactly because these DOS based sims are so limited and uninvolving graphically, that RS's promises were so poignant.

That is arrogance on a quite staggeringly selfish scale - and not really worthy of someone who has supported this genre for so long.

Why should I move on from a product that failed to deliver on its promises?
I have, and will continue to lobby for the inclusion of these elements, and to mimic your playground rhetoric as a retort,

"Why don't you just stay out of these threads you're not going to change our opinions, and to tell people that they are wrong to complain about a product which does not include promised and advertised content serves no purpose and will convert no-one"

I believe in internet parlance, one who subscribes to a well defined thread solely to counter argue in a "nay saying" fashion is known as a "troll"

After a 40 minute search through rail sites and google, I can't find any evidence for you "1%" remark - would you care to elucidate?

If not, then lets hope these threads can form part of a positive discourse between the consumer and the continuing development of the game, perhaps adding new features that even you will end up appreciating.

Regards

Paul Clarke

the ivantile and spitefull retoric in this post will not get a reply although i would love to.
instead i have reported it to the mods.

Sorry, but you keep thumping people who say they are not happy, and you do keep telling them to uninstall and go away, if you do that long enough then someone is going to snap back, running behind the mods after you have poked the tiger is not good cricket old chap.

Regards

[RSderek]

Tigers... here?

Pussy cats.

[jbilton]

the ivantile and spitefull retoric in this post will not get a reply although i would love to.
instead i have reported it to the mods.

Sorry, but you keep thumping people who say there not happy and you do keep telling them to uninstall and go away, if you do that long enough then someone is going to snap back, running behind the mods after you have poked the tiger is not good cricket old chap.

Regards

Absolutely couldn't agree more.
Cheers
Jon

[dkightley]

Okay guys....let's cool it down a bit.

Does anyone want to be responsible for this thread being locked? Whoever does, may also end up having his posts moderated until he calms down.....

So let's stop this childish bickering......

[anand99]

jamespetts

I have already raised this issue many times before. even before RS was released. I think the response RSAdam gave me a while back on the railsimulator forums was along the lines of RS was never intended to be this type of simulator. their focus apparently was on driving. Although I must say I wonder how many posts you have to make before RSDerek responds directly to your questions. I feel sorry for you man. Keep trying though.

[Scritty]

Well, I'll take the smack on the wrists.

As for it being infantile, I'm a bit bemused. I'm simply fighting my corner, as to my mind it's a valid opinion that needs expressing.

Fair enough that the Sim does not contain what I understood it should, but to refuse me the right to point this out, or to tell me to - in so many words - "Go away and play in the corner" when I do - seems rather draconian. After re-reading my post, and the post that promted it, I would call the latter far more infantile.

As I said in my earlier post, I do like RS. I have clocked up perhaps 50 hours play time in the last 5 weeks, explored the routes provided, and enjoyed most of them, and for that I'm thankful.

I would prefer that the features that the original developer touted so vocally to be integrated at some point. Maybe the new Devs will find this hard, and I thoroughly symathise with that. However the orginal developers promises were well advertised and quite explicit. If the new devs can't fullfil these, then I will obviously have to accept that.

In the mean time I will certainly continue to lobby for the inclusion of network simming, and will try and restrain my rhetoric. Starting with - Sorry.

EDIT - (quick straw poll taken at Shrub Hill station this morning - where we're expecting a special to come through [normally means some royal or other on the way to Wales - though they never tell us who , or even what loco we can expect - that's half the fun] anyway, of the three of us who own RS (and all 5 of us own MSTS) 100% would prefer networking, though only I see it as a "make or break" feature. Though as the two younger chaps are scale modellers, that's probably to be expected).

As Jon Snow was fond of saying - "It's just a bit of fun"

Regards

Dr Paul Rone-Clarke

[RSderek]

Although I must say I wonder how many posts you have to make before RSDerek responds directly to your questions. I feel sorry for you man. Keep trying though.

Guys, just because you post the questions here does not mean I will answer them here, and I certainly will not be bullied into it.

I will aim to have some of the answers to you next week once I have chatted to the relevant people.

regards

Derek

[bigvern]

Leaving aside for a moment exactly what RS was intended to provide... Whether the purpose of a simulator is to offer the experience of driving one train never leaving the forward cab view, or a wider network experience, features such as correctly functioning signalling and the ability to drive to a timetable are essential pre-requisites.