RS Developer Tools Preview

General discussion about Rail Simulator that doesn't really fit in to any specific category. A good place to start if you're not sure what category it should fit in to as well.

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CaptainBazza
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Re: RS Developer Tools Preview

Post by CaptainBazza »

(However it is a diesel so I am now thinking of making an example steam loco available too)
Thank you.

Cheers Bazza
ratsarrse
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Re: RS Developer Tools Preview

Post by ratsarrse »

This thread is a nice illustration of how tricky communication can be. It's amazing how you can write something that seems perfectly clear an unambiguous to you, only to find all sorts of misinterpretations and misunderstandings crop up when people start reading. I have to write technical docs on a fairly regular basis, sometimes aimed at the completely non-technical person. When I 'test' with a target user, some of the things that trip people up surprise me. I go back, rewrite, and re-test. Only to find the same person suddenly struggles with something that they had no problems understanding previously. Aarrgh! We get there in the end, much like we did in this thread... :D
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Post by johndibben »

stewart wrote:My apologies Vern this was my own point of view based on my interpretation of the forums.having re-read some of the posts in these forums, I withdraw the word "Endlessly" from my previous post.
Well my discussions with Derek on here had me branded as his best mate and so it works both ways and I take as part of the rough and tumble we can expect on these forums.

It would be naive for anyone to deny that it's common to want to be 'in' with developers and may appear so if untrue. If the same people then slate an opposing sim then they could be seen as trying to gain favour that way.

I'd not be surprised if anyone believes Derek has bunged me a tenner to praise RS and ask questions about MSTS2.

They'd be wrong though.

I held out for £20 :P
Cheers

John
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Re: RS Developer Tools Preview

Post by wmghobbs »

Derek,
Well, the example loco would indeed be a big help. Perhaps one of each kind would be best.
Bill Hobbs
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Re: RS Developer Tools Preview

Post by CosmicDebris »

It's amazing to see people complaining about the sourness of an unripe fruit! It's just been a month since RS has been released: no need to be that stressed, there's no hurry, let this game get mature. :)

Back to topic, I didn't know IGES format could contain texturing information. Are you sure about that?
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Re: RS Developer Tools Preview

Post by leezer3 »

First time replying to any of this, but quite frankly RSDL's attitude is taking the mick.
Licencing issues with the 3D exporters are all well and good, but this should have been sorted out months before, not still without any sort of timeframe 1 month after the release of the sim.
New 3D models are going to be the basis of anything built upon the foundations that you provide, and I believe that the decision to encrypt the 3D files in your own esotoric format was a huge mistake, and represents little more than an effort to control the community.

The lack of editing capability for in progress scenarios simply increases that perception- You have built KRS to have routes editable as you drive, and TBQH the ability to edit scenarios as they are driven I would consider fundamental to that concept. By removing/ not including that capability, you again maintain that subtle level of control over what happens, and the way that things are done.
Your original concept highlighted openess (LUA scripting etc), and I feel that you are moving further and further from this, still being unable to provide things which should have been included in the box, and attempting to prevent those modifications that do not have your 'blessing'

Not impressed with the way you have treated the community, who are at the end of things your customers.
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johndibben
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Post by johndibben »

Personally, I don't think we've been treated like incompetent & helpless gamers. I admit I was confused by the statement on the development tools and so my criticism would be the opposite. I understood the nice and simple precis which followed.

I'm content with that which I have although want more but I'm only too aware of the frustration caused by the lack of conversion tools. However, Amabillis have the tools required to produce one. Decapod suggested it could be made available in a very short time after they received the tools.

These forums have been mostly filled with content creators for years now and been able to tear MSTS apart. Anyone could foresee the problems when the same well-meaning attitude which has been accepted as normal, no longer applies. MSTS was a one off. Auran had far more hard-coded. The world has changed and people are less likely to allow others to pofit from using their software without a license. No one wants to pay for licenses. We get stuck.

I feel a lot of this should've been sorted out before release but I'm willing to give everyone the benefit of the doubt that it was attempted.

At the end of the day, if RSDL make a dog's breakfast of RS then it's their affair. I feel I've got value for money with far more than I received with MSTS which cost more six years ago.

It's in RSDL's interest to sort things out and so I assume they're attempting to do so. To assume anything else is to consider them foolish and incompetent. I'm sure some do feel that. That's their right to do so and say so but it won't help me or anyone enjoying the sim.
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John
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Re: RS Developer Tools Preview

Post by CaptScarlet »

I don't see whats the problem with not being able to edit the scenarios. The other train sims don't allow it so why should this be any different. If you download or make it yourself you can always look at it in the editor or make changes if that what you wanted to do but if you download someone else's scenario isn't it appropriate to use it the way the author intended ?

John
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Re: RS Developer Tools Preview

Post by RSderek »

leezer3 wrote:First time replying to any of this, but quite frankly RSDL's attitude is taking the mick.
Sorry you feel this way. We are certainly doing our best.
leezer3 wrote:Licencing issues with the 3D exporters are all well and good, but this should have been sorted out months before, not still without any sort of timeframe 1 month after the release of the sim.
I totaly agree, this situation should have been sorted along time ago. Not pointing any fingers because that would do no good. We at RSDL are left to pick up the peices, and we will.
leezer3 wrote:Not impressed with the way you have treated the community, who are at the end of things your customers
Again, I'm not sure what we can any better. We respond to questions on both our own and here, we work long hours to fix the issues, we contact people from the community who we think can help and we are dedicated to supporting Rail Simulator.

Best regards

Derek
Last edited by RSderek on Sun Nov 11, 2007 8:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
To contact me email support@railsimulator.com, not here.
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johndibben
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Post by johndibben »

peterdore wrote:Oh Dear oh dear! we aint a happy lot are we :-?
OK do you remember when MTS came out? :o it was . ! Yeah sure for its time it was a basic good sim..but still ..
Now be fair, Pete, MSTS was wonderful for a few weeks, then . when the bugs were widely known, then wonderful as more content arrived, then . when MSTS2 was promised, then wonderful when it became clear it wasn't appearing, dipped to OK when TMTS was promised as it was seen as MSTS1.5 and then wonderful again when that didn't appear :)

Trainz people are far more used to the situation we have now as every edition has been met by howls of protest with ardent supporters tossing their new boxes into the corner in disgust. Several patches later, it's all (well mostly) OK. Auran developes are slated. The lack of beta-testing is an issue. All very familiar really.

MSTS plods on. Trainz continues to be developed. The Gulf Stream still flows.

Times change though. People wern't so mouthy. There was more respect for developers even when they didn't deliver. RSDL has delivered and that feat alone is worthy of respect. I know some say it's better to travel than to arrive (First Great Western PR men usually) but some of us actully like to play the sims :)
Cheers

John
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Re: RS Developer Tools Preview

Post by Plimto »

I feel not being able to edit scenarios is a major flaw in the design so far. After installing the prog and getting used to the controls the first action I carried out was to drive a loco. I then saved it and found I couldn't add any content without cancelling the run.

I applaud them for rushing the sim onto the market and adding patches and SPs to improve the realism. What I am annoyed about is when I make constructive criticsm to be told that I'm attempting to cheat.

As I've said before this sim has tremendous graphics and by positively engaging in feedback with customers it could make a real first class simulator that will sell for years.

I once again ask you to discuss these early issues with users rather than insinuating they are 'cheating in a game', nothing could be more from the truth.

I sincerely hope for some constructive dialogue so that both customer and developer will gain.
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Re: RS Developer Tools Preview

Post by RSderek »

Plimto wrote:What I am annoyed about is when I make constructive criticsm to be told that I'm attempting to cheat.
Hi Plimto,

Please don't get hung up on Adam's choice of words.
It was designed like that and he was only trying to explain the reason behind it.

I don't think we can be accused of not taking constructive criticism; we have had plenty of it over the past month and acknowledged it.


ok, off to spend time with the wife, no doubt she will have some constructive criticism for me too, those dishes never did get done.

Best regards

Derek
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Re: RS Developer Tools Preview

Post by growler37 »

Hi,
i am eagerly waiting for RS dev tools release tommorow,the reskinning tool will be a real bonus.
just the class 47 will keep me busy reskinning during the dark winter nights, let alone building my route,and driving the S&D which is a graphical masterpiece.

with regards
kevin
CORNWALL THE LAND OF PASTIES AND TREVITHICK! INVENTOR OF THE STEAM LOCO.
BUILDER OF THE WEST SOMERSET RAILWAY ROUTE FOR RS.
PENZANCE TO PLYMOUTH,MODERN,IN PROGRESS.
THE HELSTON BRANCH AND WEST CORNWALL IN THE 1950,S,IN PROGRESS.
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Re: RS Developer Tools Preview

Post by milwe70 »

As long as these tools do indeed include an easy way to import DEMs to create terrain and marker files, I'll be happy.
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Re: RS Developer Tools Preview

Post by Easilyconfused »

leezer3 wrote:The lack of editing capability for in progress scenarios simply increases that perception- You have built KRS to have routes editable as you drive, and TBQH the ability to edit scenarios as they are driven I would consider fundamental to that concept. By removing/ not including that capability, you again maintain that subtle level of control over what happens, and the way that things are done.
Not sure where you are coming from here. With MSTS any change to an activity rendered any previously saved positions useless. So nothing has changed as far as I can see.

It is a real PITA that I can't save and resume and then I run over a trailing point and derail but other than that I don't see the problem.
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John Lewis

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