Decisions, decisions, decisions ??

General discussion about Rail Simulator that doesn't really fit in to any specific category. A good place to start if you're not sure what category it should fit in to as well.

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meonia
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Decisions, decisions, decisions ??

Post by meonia »

I've been holding off buying KRS until all the dust settles and I get a clear view of exactly what I will be purchasing. There are a few issues which have not been explained on the RS website and I'm wondering if any person can give an educated guess as to what will be happening in the relatively near future. Shall I buy now or later?

I live in Canada. From what I've read I will have to buy the north American version of RS else the keyboard mapping will be wrong. This would imply that I will not be able to run the European version of RS unless I bought both versions and copied the European routes and stock to the north American version. Does anybody know if this is true. Also does RS need or actually have a keyboard mapper in the options or UI ?

There is talk of a patch. Is the patch(es) going to be a permanent feature or will there be a future CD issue of KRS that has been updated to include the patch(es). This could be the north American or Russian version or a later version after the all the publications have been released.

Are all of the bugs and "buggy" issues going be addressed in the initial patch or just the main issues.

Will the dev kit and comprehensive instruction manual ever be part of the CD or will that always have to be downloaded also. (actually why have a CD if most of the simulator has to be downloaded, download the whole thing!)

From the gist of things I get the impression that KRS will be worth waiting for if/when they issue the complete version on CD. If Kuju/EA intend to do this it sounds like it will be another year before KRS is a go. I'm looking forward to it.

Mike.
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jbilton
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Re: Decisions, decisions, decisions ??

Post by jbilton »

Hi Mike
I'm fairly sure its been posted,that if you purchase the NA version you will be able to purchase the earlier European routes/stock.
Whether the main programme will be more bug free, I don't know.
Whether the 'dev tools' will be included on the NA DVD, I don't know....... but I suspect they might.
As it has become apparent that you need the dev tools to do the simplest of tasks, like even make an activity.
I think the NA routes and stock will be of a higher standard.
I believe they have been done 'out of house' and taken a long while to develop and test throughly.
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Jon
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johndibben
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Post by johndibben »

meonia wrote:I've been holding off buying KRS until all the dust settles and I get a clear view of exactly what I will be purchasing. There are a few issues which have not been explained on the RS website and I'm wondering if any person can give an educated guess as to what will be happening in the relatively near future. Shall I buy now or later?
You'll never know exactly what you're purchasing like the rest of us and those that have bought it have widely differing ideas of how good it is. Doubt anyone will give an educated guess if that means repeating something given in confidence.

If you have to ask then don't buy it :)
Cheers

John
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AndiS
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Post by AndiS »

My set of theories to support your decisions:

Holding back on the purchase is always a good idea, as the prices can only drop.

Because of the keyboard issue, you will be better off with the NA distribution.

As I remember it, the NA distribution will have only one US route and three of the four European routes, so there is not too much lost for you, if you are interested in the European routes. You will certainly spend less than the original price on the missing route, if RSD charge anything for it. (My random bet is: 10 USD).

The tools will not be included on any DVD, as RSD want to enforce their user licence agreement, whereby anyone using them will settle a licence agreement regarding royalties on the addons, if he intends to sell these addons. Freeware is not affected, but still everyone will have to agree in some form. Not much more is known, on 12th we will know the rest.

Nothing is known about the patches, accept that they have a list of confirmed issues and an ever growing list of user input, so let's cross our fingers.

I would not say you need to wait for a year. I guess that in 2 months, you will be much wiser.
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jamespetts
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Re: Decisions, decisions, decisions ??

Post by jamespetts »

You should certainly wait until after the 12th of November to see whether the documentation about the signalling shows that there are enough function calls in the signalling API to make workable signalling: with the currently known list of function calls, it is impossible to make anything approaching realistic signalling (track circuits and most interlocking/route locking features are impossible), and it is not worth buying until the presence of those (and possibly) other features are confirmed.
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RSderek
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Re: Decisions, decisions, decisions ??

Post by RSderek »

Andis is so close to the truth it's like someone is feeding him information from within.
:)

The majority of the US work was done 'in house' to a high standard and I think people will be pleased with what has been achieved.

News on the NA sku will be released soon.

regards

Derek
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AndiS
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Post by AndiS »

8) I found a secret source of information. It's a website with a name really close to the product name.
8) And then I found that some of those people really working on the project post in private forums, sometimes, but don't tell anybody. :lol:
RSAdam
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Re: Decisions, decisions, decisions ??

Post by RSAdam »

One thing that Derek omitted.

The DevTools will not be included in the NA release. They are not intended for use by casual users, and thus will always remain a download.
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peteworsley
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Re: Decisions, decisions, decisions ??

Post by peteworsley »

It would be interesting to know what is meant by casual - according to the Concise Oxford Dictionary it can be...

1) due to chance
2) not regular
3) uninterested
4) careless

...so it's good to know the tools are not meant for this type of user (especially the not regular type!).

The Developer tools used to be described as Professional - perhaps there is a problem with the Trades Description Act.

We shall see...

Best wishes

Pete W
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johndibben
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Post by johndibben »

I'm assuming the development tools will be available to anyone who agrees to the terms and condition who intends to use them as RS would expect them to be used which would be of little use or interest to a casual user.

That said, I'd like to know if I'm wrong :)

This would become a hot topic if members thought they couldn't download the tools and provide freeware content although having to agree to certain rules such as not charging for content.
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John
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Re: Decisions, decisions, decisions ??

Post by Potoroo »

RSAdam wrote:The DevTools will not be included in the NA release. They are not intended for use by casual users, and thus will always remain a download.
Given the included tools are fundamentally inadequate that is a poor decision.
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jbilton
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Re: Decisions, decisions, decisions ??

Post by jbilton »

Potoroo wrote:
RSAdam wrote:The DevTools will not be included in the NA release. They are not intended for use by casual users, and thus will always remain a download.
Given the included tools are fundamentally inadequate that is a poor decision.
Yes I would agree.
The whole thing needs rethinking.
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bigvern
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Re: Decisions, decisions, decisions ??

Post by bigvern »

jbilton wrote: Yes I would agree.
The whole thing needs rethinking.
Cheers
Jon
Actually Jon, I think the whole thing needs uninstalling and putting on Ebay!

It's all rather sinister and does tend to lend itself to the earlier conspiracy theories which circulated regarding licensing and control of content. Will users have to pass some sort of test before being allowed access to the tools? Will they be keyed to your serial number? Will we have to sign off our souls like Faust to Satan?

In all this it is the "casual" user buying RS in the shops who will suffer, as they will not understand why they can't have ready access to tools that offer the ability to go into a UI editor and set up a timetabled run with some AI traffic, using a consist of their choice.
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Re: Decisions, decisions, decisions ??

Post by ratsarrse »

At the very least, some kind of scenario tool needs to be readily available. It really should be available on the game disk. As it stands, you can 'finish the game' in a few hours. That's fine for an episode of Half Life 2, but a sim needs the ability to make your own fun for long-term play.
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jamespetts
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Re: Decisions, decisions, decisions ??

Post by jamespetts »

As long as the tools are easy enough to use, as long as people know where they can get them (and that they need them for more advanced things), and as long as the download isn't so huge that people on cheap braodband connexions use up their entire month's download allowance just for them, then the fact that they are a download rather than on the DVD is, in this day and age, not terribly significant: people will need to download patches in any case, even if they don't use the developer tools.

As to "sinister" licence agreements and conspiracy theories, we shall have to wait and see what the licence actually is, but I suspect that it won't be anything more sinister than, in effect, "you can make/distribute what you like and how you like as long as you do it for free: if you want to sell things you make with the tools, you must give some money to us". Considering that a rail simulator serves a highly niche market (and is vastly more complicated to develop than, say, a first-person shooter), there would be no hope of Rail Simulator being a commercially viable product unless it did that.
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