KRS DISSAPOINTMENT! I AM STICKING WITH MSTS

[pmyers]

Kuju have sought to re-invent the wheel and ignore the experience gained over the last six years.

To a certain extent, Kuju had to re-invent the wheel. Microsoft owned the IP for the original MSTS. The IP can included the code, the methodology, the design and the functionality of software. When Microsoft pulled the plug on the original MSTS2 (no future in this market, apparently), they reclaimed that IP lock, stock and barrel. With RS nearing completion, Microsoft suddenly announce they are re-entering the market and Kuju probably have to review those tenets of IP listed above to ensure that the MS 'suits' don't pay a visit. (cound even explain some of the shortcomings and the rush to complete. I love a good conspiracy theory ).

Of course nobody wants to stop critical postings. Even the most positive user of RS has pointed out the shortcomings of the software when it was launched, but now they have lifted the bonnet, rolled up their sleeves and found that underneath is a solid simulation engine that just needs better configuration. On the whole, the tone of the RS forums now are much more positive.

I just don't understand the mindset of those who repeatedly tell us about the same old bugs and that they're fed up with it! We heard you the first time! Whats the problem? The fact that most are persevering with RS and starting to look at the positives seems to annoy them intensely.

Set up a free roam scenario last night on the S and D route which I called 'Last service before Christmas'. Driving the 7F on a stopper through the night in the wintry countryside of Somerset. Steam leaking from every joint on the loco, the lights in the houses, being able to observe the train passing from a long distance. That was incredibly atmospheric! That for me is most of it - being able to credibly recreate a part of the railway that you can't experience in real life anymore.

Paul

[johndibben]

This will probably sound daft but I enjoy attempting to make the best use of what little there is.

With MSTS and Trainz, there's so much choice I tend to dabble here and there but rarely commit to anything.

The wide open space of not a lot in RS can be viewed as being sold short or providing loads of space to fill with something of our own.

It remains to be seen how easy or difficult that is but life is uncertain. The release could've been put back further and never been released at all. We've all seen that happen with games. There's two almost completely seperate sides to trainsimming with one being selling the core product and add-ons or newer versions to create income for continued support. The other is those on sites such as this where we take everything apart and put it back together again. It's a bit like a car. For most it's a coneyance. For a few it's something to tweak, fiddle and make ones own The two have little in common which is why the development tools are crucial to some wheras bug fixes and additional content from anywhere, even payware from RSDL, is the priority of others.

[steamnut44]

Like many others, I have been disappointed with the general problems surrounding the release of KRS, but also like many others I am going to try and persevere and get to grips with it.

The biggest disappointment to me has been the apparent lack of genuine consultation with the community - although it was much vaunted in the early days. I can't believe that any committed train-simmer would condone the highly bloated Driver Aid, for example - this is the product of a "style-over-substance" mentality - what relevance the signals in adjacent sidings has to anybody but a show-off programmer is beyond me.

Comment has been made about the problems that the default MSTS had when it was released - it is difficult to remember that MSTS was a complete shot-in-the-dark - there was no pre-existing community to seek advice from, but since then the community has grown into a force to be reckoned with. The basis of many people's complaints is that Kuju have sought to re-invent the wheel and ignore the experience gained over the last six years. Much has been made that it is KUJU - the same company which produced MSTS - but I doubt whether any of the original people have been involved - I should imagine that the software industry is very ephemeral.

I don't think it is unreasonable to expect a new simulator to have taken on board the best features of a pre-existing product while trying to improve them and add new features - I don't imagine Henry Ford spent much time developing a round, disc-like object in order to make his products run better!

Finally, the fact that the Developer Tools were not ready at release time is a worry to me - surely Kuju must have realised over the last seven years (not two, remember) that train-simming is a very pro-active hobby - not like a shoot 'em up game - and that people would want to start tinkering straight-away.

I remain hopeful that the beta-testing we are doing at the moment will result in a vastly improved product, but I have to remain with the 6/10 brigade for the product as released.

Best wishes

Pete W

I thought that this topic would sort the wheat from the chaff and I welcome all your views. However as has been stated. Kuju who produced the first MSTS for Microsoft, have had plenty of time to bring KRS up to a much better standard than it has been released in. Okay, nothing major apart from the signalling issue, has deterred anyone playing the sim, but it should have been tested more thoroughly, before being released. Pete in the above quote, has mentioned the Developer Tools, which SHOULD HAVE been included from the beginning. Yes, it has the potential to be an excellent simulator, but we as a whole should not be doing Kuju's job of testing it out, to the extent of being Beta Tester's. Kuju must have known from the onset, that there was still work to be done and that the community would have mixed feelings about it.

It would have been more logical to have released it with the tools included (due on Nov 12th) which would have given them more time to test it properly.

Yes I shall reinstall it, once the patch is released, which hopefully will have addressed all the issues raised, or the majority at least. It will, as was the case with MSTS, become a much better simulator, once the community can build on it and eventually, it will no doubt become the leading simulator, until TS2 becomes available later next year or early 2009. I am sure Microsoft will have learned a few lessons from Kuju's mistakes, primarily, releasing it too early, before thorough testing.

I wish Kuju every success with RS, as it has the makings of a very much improved simulator, than it is at the moment. I won't even consider buying TS2, until I have a computer that is capable of running it, because I will be running XP, for at least another three years. So I am hoping to get as much pleasure out of KRS, as I have had in the last five years with MSTS.

[ged4246uk]

Bugs
Battlefield 2142 15 bugs 287mb
battlield 2 22 bugs 536mb
sea dog 41 bugs
freedem force 84 bugs
so lets all go bug hunting for the game that got the most bugs
after all i did ear of KRS i was not going to bye it, but i am glad i did go out and bye so my review is 8/10 .
ther is a old saying arr wat is know ,yes. people dont like changers, time to move on people

[Mike10]

it will no doubt become the leading simulator, until TS2 becomes available later next year or early 2009.

Some of us have doubts about that

Mike.

[pgmetcalf]

It really makes me laugh on how people insist on comparing this sim to MSTS

[johndibben]

It really makes me laugh on how people insist on comparing this sim to MSTS

Me too

That MS will provide the world of railways as well It might but doubt it will be what many interpet it as.

I don't want another MSTS as I've got one already I want something different. Have to say I reckon RSDL have succeeded there

Kuju didn't set out to create MSTS2. That's for MS to do and they've taken 6 years so far and nothing but screenshots looking like MSTS is now. I fear 'fixing RS' means making it able to do what MSTS did and more. Much prefer the amalgum of some of the MSTS and Trainz features with a few hybrid ones. My reservations are that there's no totally new features which would give RS a wow factor other than better graphics.

Also amused by the talk of the community being ignored like you could find someone or some people to talk to to speak for all within it. I'm sure some reckon they do but others would disagree

In reality the community is a disperate group of probably 200 people at least, most of whom don't agree with one another as to what a sim should have or what constitutes realistic as people even argue about loco' physics

[neilbooth]

Im not giving up with KRS that easily ok it has faults....as i expected there to be..nothing will ever be perfect...but overall i quite like this sim...and i think it has great potential ....if anyone thing i get frustrated with, its derailing when using the "freemode" over crossed points.

[nestfilms]

All this talk about the community not being involved, you do realise that the community CHOSE one of the routes AND the period it was set in
you can't get more consulted than that.

On a slightly different note i keep hearing people mentioning that they are waiting for MSTS 2 or holding out for MSTS 2
and that MSTS 2 is going to be better than everything.......Why? ....Am i missing something? i've read all the posts and can't find anything that would indicate this.
If you could let me know where this information is that has convinced everyone MSTS2 is going to be THE one then it would be much apreciated.

[CaptainBazza]

The sim is not full of bugs, I encounter few bugs to be honest, can't think of any that have affected my gameplay,

Errrr, are we talking about the same sim - Rail Simulator?

Cheers, in amazement,
Bazza

[PrinceGaz]

Bugs
Battlefield 2142 15 bugs 287mb
battlield 2 22 bugs 536mb
sea dog 41 bugs
freedem force 84 bugs
so lets all go bug hunting for the game that got the most bugs
after all i did ear of KRS i was not going to bye it, but i am glad i did go out and bye so my review is 8/10 .
ther is a old saying arr wat is know ,yes. people dont like changers, time to move on people

You forgot a simulator from different genre, the spacecraft-simulator Battlecruiser 3000AD.
Unfortunately the exact number of bugs in the initial release of that are unknown as even attempting to compile a list of them would probably take a lifetime.

One thing BC3K did having going for it though is ongoing support, so I am eagerly looking forward to the first RS patch as it is in my opinion already somewhat overdue (the game must have went gold weeks ago). A patch is needed sooner rather than later, though I'm increasingly wondering if the patch will only arrive with the US release, to make them equivalent. Hopefully, further patches will be released later to fix remaining bugs.

[clanker88]

Please make me a list of signifciant bugs that affect gameplay then, the amount of significant bugs in Rail Simulator is a bit of a myth.

Read through Member Reviews Topic. and see what bugs have been discovered. Also see the scores given by those that commented. Not exactly, good scores for something that should have been put right in the first place.

I never see a list though, what really are the problems? There are lots of people saying it's rubbish, blah blah blah but they can never bring up many things fundamentally wrong. Reviews are useless if they are influenced by the 'bugs myth' and done by people who have only had it a week or so, the unfamilarity can contribute to the whole bad feeling around it.

That's exactly thye attitude that was used when MSTS came out, with all its poor quality.
Horrible sense of speed
it's pathetic 4-speed in-train motion sounds.
3rd rate graphics engine (I used to call it 'steam powered graphics')
totally unclear how to use freight work-orders in activity editor.
And a host of other problems

Back then everybody had the same blinklered attitude that "there's no real problems - it works fine", instead of standing up and telling the developer that these kind of shoddy programming practices weren't good enough.

It's no wonder Kuju felt they could dish out any old slop 2nd time around. And if we all just sit back like couch potatoes in denial then the next product by kuju will be even worse. I wouldn't be surprised if Microsoft's next effort is as half baked as Kuju's if they see us all like sheep happily eating nettles. "if they like that rubbish then lets give em more".

If you refuse to see any problems, and worse - see them but refuse to complain, then you get everything you deserve.

[johndibben]

I've praised and complained as there's cause for both and in doing so consider both more likely to be listened to.

Anyone clearly set against RS is unlikely to be listened to. Someone who shows support conditionally is likely to be posting out of genuine concern.

Bugs in games arn't going to be stopped here with RS. Nothing but complaints will probably only see those who don't want RS to succeed being satisfied. It's a problem best tackled by the wider community with high profile games. When they play their part then we can play ours but the problem goes right to the top with MS and it's operating systems. Some will only use Apple-Mac and complain but most follow MS.

It's easy to complain and while some see no point in praise, a balance is neccessary for either to be effective which is why I do both.

[RSderek]

Afternoon all,

Bugs? what bugs? I don't see any bugs ...

I take it my elabarate bluff did not work..?

Apart from this thread it is all quiet, like the still before the storm.

I've got my nice North Face jacket on in prepration.


Can anyone rant on this thread or is it just for the community?
(Wondering if I am now part of the community, or still an out cast)
We are down to our last tea bag, gonna have to send out troops!

Anyway, work on docs, movies and example models going well at the moment.

You (some of you) will be glad to know we are adding voice overs to the tutorial movies. We will be working on these upto and beyond the 12th, so bare with us, so much to show.

Personaly I don't see why anyone has a go at people for defending RS, or vice versa. I think what the issue that people are getting caught up with is the covering of old ground. Fair enough if they think we are not listening or taking note, but we are.


Other than that no real news, just shooting the breeze duiring lunch.

regards

Derek

[Lad491]

Bugs? what bugs? I don't see any bugs ...

I take it my elabarate bluff did not work..?

Er ..... No

Apart from this thread it is all quiet, like the still before the storm

Those who want to try and make it work are still labouring to do it, others have gone back to msts to await your next move, as it were. All the complaints have been aired often and there isnt a lot of point in keep going over the same ground. Thats why its quietened down. Thank God i say, at least I can read the threads now

I've got my nice North Face jacket on in prepration

I think you might need a tin helmet as well if those development tools dont live up to the promises.

Can anyone rant on this thread or is it just for the community?
(Wondering if I am now part of the community, or still an out cast)

Its just for us to rant on - youve got your own forums
I dont think you could ever be considered part of the community. More like a boss (in the absence of the real boss)

Other than that no real news, just shooting the breeze duiring lunch.

None here really either, just more of the same

Oh - you spelt my name wrong in the list of credits - did i mention that Would be quite nice if that could be fixed in the patch, then i can show off to relatives / friends I tried changing my copy but that caused the whole sim to stop working, so it isnt just a question of changing the bin file in an xml editor - there must be other dependancies somewhere