KRS DISSAPOINTMENT! I AM STICKING WITH MSTS

[johndibben]

I've only a few points to add to what's been said.

I've paid for games i'm disappointed with but not continued to moan and that includes RS. I'm far alone in that approach to the problems with RS.

Someone mentioned Vern to support their view of RS but neglected to point out Vern pronounced MSTS dead more than once on these forums. I'm not having a go at Vern though rather than pointing out how attitudes can change.

I've no problems with people sticking to MSTS and enjoying it and don't post on MSTS forums to spoil their enjoyment. The problems appear to be that some members enjoy RS but other members post here without the same regard.

[danielw2599]

I've only a few points to add to what's been said.

I've paid for games i'm disappointed with but not continued to moan and that includes RS. I'm far alone in that approach to the problems with RS.

Someone mentioned Vern to support their view of RS but neglected to point out Vern pronounced MSTS dead more than once on these forums. I'm not having a go at Vern though rather than pointing out how attitudes can change.

I've no problems with people sticking to MSTS and enjoying it and don't post on MSTS forums to spoil their enjoyment. The problems appear to be that some members enjoy RS but other members post here without the same regard.

Well the last I looked, this forum is for talking about the various aspects of KRS both good and bad...or am I wrong?

[markjudith]

I think in genral quite a lot of folk are dissapointed with RS because they don't get some of the things they thought a new sim may bring; ie, all the good bits from the various rail sims available.
If 3rd party developers can create rain that is wiped off the screen you would presume that the new sim may well have a similar feature, rather than wipers that do not do anything.
We should also have very high quality sounds by now, if they can be utilized in BVE why wasn't the same standard be applied to RS?
Coupling was a major problem initially with MTS for a long time and still can be! RS is better but watching buffers glide through each other into the solebar and hearing a catostrophic bang! It could be better by now couldn't it.
Seeing the little hiccups such as the coal loaders does not install confidence for the new exited user, if they can miss something as obvious as that, what else isn't right, would be the first thoughts of a lot of people.
MTS, as has been said many times, was worse than RS when it was released. Trouble is I don't think we expected to have to go through all the fixing of basic stuff again.

[Welxxi]

Please make me a list of signifciant bugs that affect gameplay then, the amount of significant bugs in Rail Simulator is a bit of a myth.

Something like 95%+ of reported bugs are minor. KRS is very playable.

I agree and at least before the bug list has contained also other things like real bugs. As far as i know there are actually
not much real bugs in the game engine. Majority of the problems are different kinds of forgotten or unfinished things.

I've also noticed that sometimes some really minor things are reported as severe bugs. The most ridiculous one is that bug
which causes the passengers to walk through each others and objects at the stations. It would be a bad bug in a 3D shooter,
but in a train simulator? I also find it a little contradictory to complain about the sky. Okay, of course the sky in MSTS using
that add-on sky package was really good, but this is a train simulator, not a flight simulator.

One major problem is of course that the scenarios are quite bad and especially the badly designed free roam scenarios
make the sim a bit difficult for newbies. I'm sure that when we get the additional editors, there will be very good content
available for KRS.

We also have to remember that everything we see now in KRS is default. I don't think that all the default sounds, graphic,
locos etc. were so good in MSTS either. MSTS has been in the market for years now and of course there are good add-ons
available for it. On the other hand i can tell that when i looked in Aerosoft's site at the new West Coast Express for MSTS,
i nearly cried when i saw the HST cab. It looks really awfull compared to the virtual HST cab of KRS. For me the only MSTS
route i can still drive is the exellent Berlin Subway. Otherwise MSTS doesn't give me anything any more.

Welxxi

[Caseyjones82]

I bought KRS on its first day of release and was eager to get it installed, just to see what improvements there were, over the six year old MSTS.

After just over 2 weeks, to be honest, I am very dissapointed, with the product overall. 4 out of 10 Kuju could have done much much better than this bug ridden effort.

This simulator is so full of bugs, it should never have been released in this state. I think Kuju have rushed out this product, no doubt with the insistance of EA Games, to meet a certain deadline. What about the American Version? If America had got this version, with all its bugs, they wouldn't have been very pleased. I wouldn't mind betting that the American Version will have the patch included. Kuju are using the European Railsim Community to beta test this simulator. if you ask me, when they should have done it before release. I would have gladly waited another month to six weeks for a copy that was as near perfect, rather than what we have been given in this early release.

Why couldn't these new tools, that are coming in November, have been included in the DVD. I bet the American Version will have them and if the instructions for the new tools are as breif as the instructions that came with the sim, they won't be of much use to anyone

We have seen a few unofficial tweaks for KRS over the past few weeks, relating to cab view positions.
Even Matt has done a video, explaining how to change stock to be used on any route. Why couldn't this have been explaned in the instructions, which are about as much use as something scribbled on the back of a fag packet, especially to the novice.

The novice to rail simulating, has not been adressed at all. Ok for those that have had MSTS, because they know what to expect and how to understand how most things work. The instructions that come with KRS explain what certain things do, but NOT HOW TO DO IT! Not very instructive at all really.

Even the Program Folders are a bit confusing, not like MSTS, where everything speaks for itself, Routes (with names, not numbers as in KRS) Trainset & Consists in MSTS (which speak for themselves) instead of Assets, which eventually gets you to the Trains Folders after opening several file folders. This is okay for those that are familiar with going into the Programs Files, but what about the ordinary guy, who hasn't a clue about how to find where things are stored.
Sorry, but the Program File System for KRS could have been made much easier to look at, than it is. To delete a Route, you have to go into another folder and delete some of the text, not as simple as MSTS, where you just send the particular Route Folder to the Recycle Bin, or store it in another folder.

When the upgrade patch becomes available, to overcome all the reported bugs, it is going to be quite a long list. I have never known a new released game, to have had as many bugs as KRS has.

Let's just hope they get everything right with the patch.

I am that fed up with running the same scenarios, I have decided to uninstall KRS and put the DVD back in its case, until things are improved on.

I still have MSTS installed and always will have, despite its age and quirks, to me it is much better than KRS in a lot of areas. Decent looking rain, insted of the massive droplets showing in KRS and wipers that don't have any effect when running. The skies in MSTS are much more realistic than KRS skies, especially if you use Sky Conductor or Kosmos. AND the quality of some of the latest routes for MSTS are much much better to run on, Dorset Coast V4, Thames Mersey V4, Cannock Chase V5, to name but a few, than the default routes of KRS.

I'm afraid that MSTS still provides me with much more enjoyment for the present, whether this will be the case in twelve months time when KRS has improved, I can't say, but for the time being, I'm sticking with MSTS.

Do what you want to do, no need tot ell the rest of the world

[bigvern]

I did try and balance the review on my site with both good and bad points and yes it is a snapshot of how things are with the initial release, but it's no good basing a review on anything other than how the product comes out the box - warts 'n all. Now it may be three years from now EA RS 2010 will be thriving with all the bugs fixed, gameplay to please every user, scores of 3rd party routes and 100's of rolling stock items. I really hope it does.

And yes a review is always going to be based on one's perception at the time. When MSTS launched we were prepared to overlook it's many bugs and foibles simply because there wasn't anything like it, not even Trainmaster 4 came close. As I mentioned in my review and have indicated in my thoughts on here, EARS has launched into a considerably different arena than MSTS or Trainz when we were eager for something far better than the text based or 16 colour programmes of the day. We set too and dealt with the bugs, struggled with the route editor to produce the first primitive looking routes.

The thing is we didn't expect, or really want to go through, all that again to get end results that are not all that much more than MSTS or Trainz had to offer.

Having seen the preview screenshots for MT's Glasgow to Edinburgh it does indeed seem that MSTS is far from dead. My own personal preference at present for development is TRS2004, now it is established with good utilities to assist in building prototype routes.

[stewart]

We keep hearing about that long list of bugs that RS has, well lets have a look then.

1) dissapearing passengers = workaround available.
2) Front coupler problem with 7F = Fix posted
3) Unable to delete routes = Route deleter posted
4) Signalling messed up = Not known if its a bug or poor script implementation at this time
5) Track problem around Didcot = Known issue. To be addressed in patch
6) Coal constantly dropping = Known issue. To be addressed in patch

You see where I am going with this, these issues are hardly what you can call show stoppers. Most of the other issues mentioned throughout this forum are different ways of implementing features in the game rather than bugs. As i said before, I dont mind people not liking the game but it does get a bit tiresome to see thread after thread with the same "This is rubbish and Im sticking with MSTS" type of subject being continually posted.
If someone posts about a particular problem they are having and then someone else posts an almost identical post in a new thread then the second poster is almost invariably directed to the original thread. Oh how I wish this would happen with all those posters who seem determined to undermine RSD at every opportunity. For what its worth I bought Trainz when it was released. It stayed on my hard drive for about a week and then I removed it because I didnt like it. I didnt (and still dont) feel I had to post and tell everyone who would listen that I hated it. I just removed it from my drive and left it at that. People need to get KRS into perspective. It is not the bug riddled disaster some would have you believe. It is a piece of software that has a few teething problems as many other simulations before have had and many more to come will have. Teething problems which RSDL have said they are addressing.
As for anyone who thinks they can put a definitive score on a simulation, they need to remember one important thing. These simulations are released to have as wide an appeal as possible and "one mans meat is another mans poison". I dont believe a review should ever be an opinion. It should be as full a description as possible with a list of features in the game. At the end of the day, the buyer should be able to decide if it is what he wants without being influenced by reviewers idea of how well it caters to his own wishes. In that respect scores are totally worthless.

[tads1970]

Looking beyond whats wrong with it now,I see a good simulator,it deserves a chance.It isn't going to change overnight.

[johndibben]

I've mentioned good and bad points about RS on this forum as have many others but with a view to continuing to use it.

[bhyde]

Get on to one of the shunting activities - use detach from train (8 key) and do some coupling and uncoupling - you can see the underlying accuracy of the physics engine - I havent seen this before.
I think sounds of the class 47 are pretty near to prototypical - not bad for default stock
Drive around Newcastle high & low level - good fps despite extremely dense scenery (even on my aging Athlon XP)
3 UK routes!! - we cant say we didnt get what we asked for
I believe there are many positives

[MaxFreak]

Let's just hope they get everything right with the patch.

I take it you'll be re-installing it, then, on the Glorious 12th.

Have I missed something ??? what happens on the " Glorious 12th "

~A~

[3DTrains]

While I wasn't crazy about the shortcomings in RS, the more I tinker with it, the more I like it. Nevertheless, I'll continue to sit on the fence until RSDL release their promised documentation, plus any needed updates. I certainly won't be deleting it anytime soon, however. Even with its bugs, it's just too damn interesting to set aside.

[CaptainBazza]

Love it, or hate it, what will make or break RS is the level of committement the amateur route builders and modellers put into supporting the sim. It's too early to make assumptions in that respect as we await, with interest, the RS SDK.

Cheers Bazza

[peteworsley]

Like many others, I have been disappointed with the general problems surrounding the release of KRS, but also like many others I am going to try and persevere and get to grips with it.

The biggest disappointment to me has been the apparent lack of genuine consultation with the community - although it was much vaunted in the early days. I can't believe that any committed train-simmer would condone the highly bloated Driver Aid, for example - this is the product of a "style-over-substance" mentality - what relevance the signals in adjacent sidings has to anybody but a show-off programmer is beyond me.

Comment has been made about the problems that the default MSTS had when it was released - it is difficult to remember that MSTS was a complete shot-in-the-dark - there was no pre-existing community to seek advice from, but since then the community has grown into a force to be reckoned with. The basis of many people's complaints is that Kuju have sought to re-invent the wheel and ignore the experience gained over the last six years. Much has been made that it is KUJU - the same company which produced MSTS - but I doubt whether any of the original people have been involved - I should imagine that the software industry is very ephemeral.

I don't think it is unreasonable to expect a new simulator to have taken on board the best features of a pre-existing product while trying to improve them and add new features - I don't imagine Henry Ford spent much time developing a round, disc-like object in order to make his products run better!

Finally, the fact that the Developer Tools were not ready at release time is a worry to me - surely Kuju must have realised over the last seven years (not two, remember) that train-simming is a very pro-active hobby - not like a shoot 'em up game - and that people would want to start tinkering straight-away.

I remain hopeful that the beta-testing we are doing at the moment will result in a vastly improved product, but I have to remain with the 6/10 brigade for the product as released.

Best wishes

Pete W

[jascott]

While I wasn't crazy about the shortcomings in RS, the more I tinker with it, the more I like it. Nevertheless, I'll continue to sit on the fence until RSDL release their promised documentation, plus any needed updates. I certainly won't be deleting it anytime soon, however. Even with its bugs, it's just too damn interesting to set aside.

Absolutely spot on. I have not used MSTS since I got RS because I have been engrossed with setting up lots of Free Roam Scenarios - mainly shunting/making up trains etc - and it runs fine on my relatively low-end system (Athlon XP 2200/1Gb Ram/Nvidia 5500). I have already made up lots of consists which I find easy to do and much better than Activity Editor or Conbuilder for MSTS. The fact that you see trains as you build consists and check that they fit sidings, platforms etc is terrific. OK, there is no A1 traffic yet but once that is available with the Dev Tools I am sure there will be loads of Scenarios produced and uploaded within days.

I have painstakingly read all the posts on here and on the RS forum and it seems clear to me that a large proportion of the "bugs" complained about are down to the poor documentation (disgraceful), underpowered computer systems, badly maintained systems (fragmented, bloated and full of junk) or simply because it does not work the way some people think it should. If it does something the way the developers intended but not the way anyone else thinks it should, then it is not a bug. It is an opportunity to suggest to the developers that they rethink their approach, not to moan that they got it wrong.

Quite clearly RS was released at least a month too early and should not have been released without decent documentation and the tools to create content. If that had happened I would think it would have been received much better by the trainsim community.

When the documentation is sorted out, when the real bugs are fixed and when the tools for creating content are available, this will be a totally different experience than it is now and until then I will just continue to enjoy it and look forward. I have plans for a Caledonian branch route with appropriate stock and if I thought I could produce a route or some rolling stock half as good as the current content I would be very pleased.

John