Correcting/Improving Default Routes

[peteworsley]

Good morning everyone

I have read with interest the Topic regarding the creation of new routes for RS, but I would like to float a suggestion for correcting the errors in and improving the default routes. Everyone has their favourite aspect of train simulation, and modifyng an existing default route is a good way of learning the techniques of the Editors etc, but the net result would be hundreds of revised versions of what are essentially sound routes, making the distribution of scenarios difficult.

At the risk of having my head chewed off, could I suggest a coordinated attempt to improve these routes, with some kind of group working together. We obviously don't know the exact file structure of a route yet, but it is only a matter of time and surely it should be possible for members to work on individual tiles and exchange them with fellow members to enable a coherent improvement to be made. Presumably, there will be some technique available to perform the equivalent of rebuilding the track database to allow the merging of corrected track layouts, or even the extension of a route.

My particular interest is the Somerset and Dorset, and while I may not have the time to do that much "modelling", I would gladly try to coordinate such an attempt. Please take the time to think about it - it is only an idea - there may be a serious limitation which I haven't thought of, but I do think there is potential for improvement and extension in all the default routes.

It would be a shame for a lot of effort to be expounded (and ultimately wasted) in producing hundreds of slightly different (and incompatible) versions.

Over to you

Best wishes

Pete W

[portisheadpannier]

Bonjour Pete,

I loaded the game last night for the first time and roamed like a bird from evercreech junction to bath green park. I've studied the S&D for 14 years and have mountains of data, know every bridge, cutting, bank, sleeper and signal. I would love to be part of a group to improve and re-release the S&D.

I would like to be map/plan co-ordinator. We would need modellers to build site specific bridges and buildings, and people who understand terrain, tiles and programming to put it all together. It may be worth doing an S&D Search back through the forums and PM'ing everyone who had has major interest in this route.

It could be the most realistic route ever on a PC.

Major route discrepancies I spotted were:

embankments and cuttings too wide. generic over and underbridges where there were only single line spans, roads in the wrong place

specifics.....

Midland 2 road shed used templecombe shed model
Bath Junction box, wrong side of line
co-op sidings building missing
monksdale rd 3 arch bridge missing
mogers occupation underbridge has no piers
tucking mill viaduct not high enough
long arch bridge huge
midford viaduct way too many arches, road in wrong place, no canal or camerton branch
wellow blue bridge wrong side of the box
longbarrow plate girder is under instead of over!
river somer on the wrong side of the valley out of radstock, appears to be a huge canal
welton road bridge missing
norton hill colliery tramway, 44 feet high trestle overbridge and spoilheap missing, huge feature!
A367 bridge missing at moorewood
binegar has massive extra station building in place of up shelter
croscombe road underbridge missing south of masbury station
ham wood viaduct not tall enough
crushing plant missing at hamwood
forum lane girder way too big
bath road 118 yard 6 arch viaduct tiny, with hardly any valley and no road
cheddar valley overbridge has double track on it
bridge 116 next to pecking mill missing
bridge 117 plate single span over girder instead of 3 arch stone
evercreech junction table missing
evercreech station box missing

....we would need to start by checking the trackbed alignment over google earth, then checking the gradients, before starting to resculpt all the lineside contours, bridges etc etc etc.

[arabiandisco]

I'm not an S&D rivet-counter, so apart from the ridiculous signalbox at Midsomer Norton I didn't notice any major traumas (A turntable at Evercreech would be nice, mind!). It has a very good "feel" to it, so IMO a better improvement to the route would be Templecombe - Bournemouth West and Evercreech - Burnham.

[portisheadpannier]

Yes it has a good feel to it, but not a lot of research went into the track layouts, roads or landscape, basically, the community werent consulted, now we have to re-do it all.

[1975Supra]

I've been having the same idea !

Count me in (route editor).

Cheers

Dave

[bristolian]

Yes it has a good feel to it, but not a lot of research went into the track layouts, roads or landscape, basically, the community werent consulted, now we have to re-do it all.

Hello,

The S&DRHT at Midsomer Norton South were consulted, and lent a great deal of info to Kuju (which I've been informed they haven't had back yet).

There is also a discrepancy with the trackbed between MSN and Chilcompton Tunnel. The line should be straight from the curve at the south of MSN, to the curve at the north end of Chilcompton Tunnel. I presume that Google Earth was used by the route builders, this has caused a problem, as looking at the Google earth image, this shows the route to be curved. I suspect that the images on the GE server were not taken 'square-on' to the trackbed. but off to the east. This thus shows the hills to the east of the line through which the line runs, the undulating nature of the hills gives an impression that the line is not straight.


The trackbed is should be straight between the two white circles on the above image.

Very Best Wishes,
Bob.

[portisheadpannier]

Hi Bob.

The double track curve out of norton runs into an 1100 feet dead straight (this is the section they are waiting on planning permission on) the line then does curves right, straight for 700 feet, then curves left at the farm crossing and up distant, before the final 1600 feet dead straight plunge into muck cutting where it curves into the twin bores, (all at 1 in 53) so google earth is correct. The trust have all 6 of my 1/2500 1930 revision O/S maps, from norton hill colliery bridge 45a to binegar. i'd better see if they'll loan them back to me for route kuju route correction!

[bristolian]

Hi Bob.

The double track curve out of norton runs into an 1100 feet dead straight (this is the section they are waiting on planning permission on) the line then does curves right, straight for 700 feet, then curves left at the farm crossing and up distant, before the final 1600 feet dead straight plunge into muck cutting where it curves into the twin bores, (all at 1 in 53) so google earth is correct. The trust have all 6 of my 1/2500 1930 revision O/S maps, from norton hill colliery bridge 45a to binegar. i'd better see if they'll loan them back to me for route kuju route correction!

In that case I stand corrected . i was primarily looking at Ivos' pictures, and then looking at the Kuju representation.
At least it's a damn site more accurate than the S & C route that we had in MSTS.

Very Best Wishes,
Bob.

[portisheadpannier]

yes it is. Well thats 3 of us onboard, or should that be all aboard? well, i'm going to scan my 1mm to 4 feet map of bath gp to gwr bridge 3 into google earth overlay this week and make a start on spot heights and contour lines. Great to hear from others so we can sort out a good team.........

[bristolian]

yes it is. Well thats 3 of us onboard, or should that be all aboard? well, i'm going to scan my 1mm to 4 feet map of bath gp to gwr bridge 3 into google earth overlay this week and make a start on spot heights and contour lines. Great to hear from others so we can sort out a good team.........

Are you the chap who's been working on a Google earth overlay for theBristol area?. I came across a link from a message on the Bristol Railway Archive forum.

I'd be most interested in helping out too in some way...

Very Best Wishes,
bob.

[portisheadpannier]

Hi Bob, yes I started last week. That's 4 of us now, great, perhaps we should wait to hear back from Pete who started this post. I then think we should get this thread moved to route building section. I started a somerset and dorset thread there under PinesExpress, but couldnt access my hotmail account to retreive my password so i've created a new username.

Regards,

Nick

[bristolian]

Aaaah, I thought it might have been you...

Not S&D related per se, but inline with your Greater Bristol scheme, It'll be great to see a nice accurate portrayal of Barrow Road shed too, and the climb up to Staple Hill...too many thoughts now!.

Very Best Wishes,
Bob.

[portisheadpannier]

yes well, along with being a personal interest, and an educational tool, thats another reason why i've started the great google overlay project, for us modellers. I was hoping someone would start this thread, because I wanted to be part of an accurate timemachine, but havent the time to be overall project co-ordinator. The world could expand from Bath Green Park, limited only by the size of your hard drive and imagination. I will continue to add to google earth, concentrating mainly on Bath so we can get the ball rolling.

[portisheadpannier]

BRIDGE DATA:

I also have all the combined data from the LSWR/LMS & BR(W) civil engineering registers from bath junction to templecombe.

[AndiS]

I find that a great initiative (organising the improvement of the default content). Incidentally, the S&D is the route which meet my interest the most.

I am currently analysing the signalling of KRS. We should try to separate two issues in their regard.
- How they are supposed to work, generally.
- Where which on should have been placed on each of the routes.

I very much appreciate input on the latter in a dedicated thread, labelled "Signalling the S&D" or such, once those in the know come around putting together the details. I could pick it out of a general "Rebuilding the S&D" thread, too, though, depending on how large the latter will become.

I myself have no knowledge of the S&D, but I will do my best to make these signals do what they are supposed to.