Dev Tools due on 12 Nov

[stewart]

And the even more good news is that Railsim is going to provide support for TrackIR soon too!

Really?! Where did you see that Stewart?
I have one for FSX and must admit it's excellent.

From A pm I had from Derek

.........And yes, we do plan on implementing Trackir, infact the code is practically there as with Rail Driver.

best regards

Derek

[RSderek]

Afternoon,

Stewart got the information about TrackIR from me.
Like I have said many times on here, we will be supporting RS for a long time to come and will be looking at new features, fixes and downloads.

One thing is for sure I watch what I say on the forums but I would never lie here. (Little white ones to the wife about the number of John smiths I had the previous night are acceptable to me)
Having said all of that I think i could look good in a cloak and dagger outfit.

best regards

Derek

[mickoo737]

Never called you a liar, if l did you'd know and l wouldn't be subtile....as you may guess thats not my style....I dont think your a liar, never have so we'll close that issue here and now.

Best

Michael

[Ryosuke]

thanks for the info!


you guys should also keep in mind that rail simulator hasn't even been released in most of the world, so for the rest of us it isn't a one month waiting time.

[RSderek]

Sorry mickoo,
My comment was a general one and not aimed at anyone.

regards

Derek

[stewart]

Having said all of that I think i could look good in a cloak and dagger outfit.

best regards

Derek

LOL I can see it now! http://www.leedberg.com/mad/spies/train.gif

[phat2003uk]

Deary do, disappointed we have to wait so long to be honest. For me then really, the release date of RS is 12th November. It's nice trying out some of the scenarios but once you've finished with them, there's not a lot else to do.

[AndiS]

No idea what Andi's on about as usual

How can confirmation of what many want be a slap in the face?

I just meant two things.

First, some statements of the announcement are far from the truth. Now that we are just about to tell each others that no one never lied, maybe I should say that these claims were a necessary part of the marketing strategy and if people believe them and think they are the only ones experiencing serious flaws, then maybe it helps the whole movement to keep them in the dark for a while, so they are still around when the patches come out. But I think I must be mad to write such brainwashed non-sense like the previous sentence.

Second, I don't see a reason in bundling all the tools into one. To help "increase the number of satisfied users" (read "rescue the reputation of the product"), many people on this forum would try to help fix things as soon as possible. Any help us in helping RSD, RSD could move over anything which is somewhat beta. It will still be beta on Nov. 12th.. If you put a "beta" sticker on it, reasonable people can use it to some degree and the bugs are found. If RSD hog the stuff for another month, nothing will change.

Of course, there will be parts which need more work, and I am not suggesting to rush out those. But there must be other parts which will not improve over the next month, like documentation of the Lua API and the data formats. We do not care about formatting. If it is not there, we will wade aimlessly through XML files, wasting time guessing.

Of course, you could suggest that we all walk away for a month, and simply do something else. But every day a large number of people install the programme, run their trains over wrongly set points or into other trains and are fed up with the product. It would not be my problem if it would be my major train simming hope. I need KRS to succeed, otherwise I would get forced to switch to Vista.

And yes, it could be that RSD are secretly working on a wonderful batch which irons out all the bugs the have not found before release and it will be available before Nov. 12th. But RSD must have funding problems (it is not possible to be different), and we do need every hand at RSD to fix bugs in the core software. I would be economical madness to let those people deal with Lua and XML files which are accessible to the outside enthusiasts, who are currently forced to idle while RSD don't have enough personal resources to deliver the development tools together with the release of the core product. Even more as that core product gives little joy without fixes.

[johndibben]

Never called you a liar, if l did you'd know and l wouldn't be subtile....as you may guess thats not my style....I dont think your a liar, never have so we'll close that issue here and now.

Best

Michael

Sorry, Michael but the only issue which appears closed is that Derek isn't lying and I don't believe you are either but someone has to be.

My definition of lying includes making any statement which leads the reader to believe that which isn't true.

If you now believe the information you were fed was false then the issue could be closed.

However, if not, it doesn't look good for anyone closely connected with KRS to be completely trustworthy and worse than that, I assume most would be innocent.

[markjudith]

I can't help but look from the perspective of someone who has bought the sim from a shop, knows nothing about the community...just totally new to the scene. They read the instruction book and fancy getting the extra tools from the website..they won't be impressed will they.

I think RS overall will become a good sim but why do we always expect new releases to be full of problems and they usually are...why is it to much to expect to get a product that works as it should with all the tools etc that you need to enjoy it!
It's like buying a trainset the box says everything is there, your track, wagons, loco's and controller.
You come to use it and find that you need special joiners to connect the rails, the loco has no motor, the wagons have no couplings and the transformer uses a special power pack available separatley, you can get them all from the manufacturer over the next few months...till then have fun pushing your stock round!
It seems we live in an age where things are marketed even though they don't work properly and everyone accepts it as the norm

[johndibben]

First, some statements of the announcement are far from the truth.

Your interpretation of the statements is a best literal. Otherwise they're correct as they stand. A one month delay would not constitute failure to comply with the wording on the box. That's simply sales hype. I really would suggest patience. Why not play the sim? That's it's primary purpose Contrast that with minumum specs on most games. Wholly misleading and criminal in my view.

It's outrageous to suggest KRS have funding problems on such a flimsy basis! As a registered company, they copuld take action on a remark like that.

People can hack the sim if they wish but wouldn't advise it for a number of reasons, not least legal ones.

Fixing the bugs is a priority and those who feel idle can assist by reporting them. That should take a while

Then the tools to create will have some use.

Giving people tools to sort the bugs themselves would be a nightmare. It was tried with MSTS in the early days and screwed people's computers in the process.

Can't believe anyone would suggest it.

[johndibben]

I can't help but look from the perspective of someone who has bought the sim from a shop, knows nothing about the community...just totally new to the scene. They read the instruction book and fancy getting the extra tools from the website..they won't be impressed will they.

I think RS overall will become a good sim but why do we always expect new releases to be full of problems and they usually are...why is it to much to expect to get a product that works as it should with all the tools etc that you need to enjoy it!
It's like buying a trainset the box says everything is there, your track, wagons, loco's and controller.
You come to use it and find that you need special joiners to connect the rails, the loco has no motor, the wagons have no couplings and the transformer uses a special power pack available separatley, you can get them all from the manufacturer over the next few months...till then have fun pushing your stock round!
It seems we live in an age where things are marketed even though they don't work properly and everyone accepts it as the norm

Good point and we shouldn't have to accept bugs and be able to take games back. That would soon ensure standards rose. It's a bit late now though.

Whilst on shops, talking to assistants in Game Stores, they didn't like commercial trainsim add-ons as customers don't read the box, thought they were stand-alone and MSTS wasn't in stock. This is the impulse buying which is lucrative and gives little incentive to make a good product.

I had no idea FS-X has had two patches yet I registered on line. This is common. You'll get adverts for more stuff but not the information you require to run that which you've bought.

I don't believe publishers give a damn about quality. The sooner we get fed up of our purchase the better and buy something else.

The result is they'll pass on as little as possible as soon as possible and leave the developer to carry the can and sort out the mess.

Bet there's a few on here who recognise this scenario

That's why I don't have a go at the developers as I've seen what goes on.

[AndiS]

It's outrageous to suggest KRS have funding problems on such a flimsy basis! As a registered company, they copuld take action on a remark like that.

It is normal for a company in this industry at this stage of a project to be short of money. Saying so cannot be derogative (and indeed was not meant as a criticism).

Fixing the bugs is a priority and those who feel idle can assist by reporting them. That should take a while

And then someone moans about the negative attitude in the forums ...

Giving people tools to sort the bugs themselves would be a nightmare. It was tried with MSTS in the early days and screwed people's computers in the process.

You confuse changing the programme code with fixing configuration files. I did not mean the first and it would be very difficult and legally problematic. I only refer to fixing the configuration files (think .eng). It was done successfully in MSTS and it can be done here. Only that I currently focus on signalling, because this is where the problems seem to be biggest. Physics are fine this time (for all we know currently). Signalling is much more promising than in MSTS but the default content must have some bad issues.

Digging through .wag and .eng files, the community arrived at far better train behaviour than in the original content, but it took long. With a bit more support, and with the experience and the current size of the community, it will soon outperform the level of signalling that Kuju implemented. How swift this happens depends on the energy of people and the support from RSD.

[Paul_Boland]

I have to say, I'm a bit concerned about what shape these Development Tools will take on?!? The Rail Sim team in their new news statement have said that these are for experts to use. Well, I'm thinking of MSTS 1. All the tutorials I read, the MSTS book I bought, the requests to train sim forums for help, and in all the years I played with MSTS 1, I never, once, made a single route with it because the tools were too difficult to use.

Now, I'm looking at the World Editor in Rail Simulator and I have to say, it has a few quirks to it. For example, I'm finding it very difficult to make junctions, connecting a laid two lines of track to a single line. I find even connecting a new bit of track to an already established one a bit of a challenge at times. I find navigation of the world a bit awkward. When I compare it to Trainz Surveyor where I was laying track and building a test route in minutes, RS WE is not as friendly.

So just what will these Development Tools be like? Will they be easy enough so the average Joe at home can use them or are we looking at something along the lines of MSTS 1!!! Hope not, I hope they are closer to Trainz Surveyor tools but only time will tell.

[mickoo737]

John,

I honestly dont give a damn anymore, it'll be what will be and l'm pretty sure cottage industies will be screwed, theres nothing that can be said here anymore on this issue that wouldnt become liablous or close too. The issue is closed, we'll never get to the bottom of it, its too muddy and to be frank...whats the point, one person will be right and one wrong, l hope its me, l can take it on the chin, l'm expendable, others might not be.

I dont care if the game fails or wins, if content can or cannot be created, l wanted so much to contribute to KRS as the game engine looks great, but l have deep seated reservations about many things, thats my problem and issue and l'll take it elsewhere.

l've packed away all the high level train sim stuff with a "do not open before TSx appears", l will probably finish the Warship for MSTS1 as it involves others whos efforts and skills I appreciate.

Y'all have fun with the new game and l hope it gets sorted so that many others here can rest there fears and reservations.

Thanks for all the fish

kindest

Michael

Never called you a liar, if l did you'd know and l wouldn't be subtile....as you may guess thats not my style....I dont think your a liar, never have so we'll close that issue here and now.

Best

Michael

Sorry, Michael but the only issue which appears closed is that Derek isn't lying and I don't believe you are either but someone has to be.

My definition of lying includes making any statement which leads the reader to believe that which isn't true.

If you now believe the information you were fed was false then the issue could be closed.

However, if not, it doesn't look good for anyone closely connected with KRS to be completely trustworthy and worse than that, I assume most would be innocent.