Dev Tools due on 12 Nov

[seagulls2000]

Hi all,

The tools that will be available for download are the same for everyone and the same as what we at RSDL are using.

regards

Derek

Thanks for clearing that up. Its good to know that the amateur is on the same playing field as the commercial add ons with regard to the tools and should lead to a lot of decent freeware add ons IF there is an export option

While you are around can you expand any more as to why the months wait if they are the same as RSDL used for the default routes? Is it to make sure that they are compatible with any patches released or to be released, is it that they need a clean up or is there another reason?

[mickoo737]

And you have proof of this ?.

Some people are never satisfied. Its pretty simple really. There's no big conspiracy theory, no secret tools. It is simply (as has been stated by RSD in the past,) a case of making the tools more accesible to the untrained user rather than the raw state as used by the developers in RSD. By that I mean they will be making them more user friendly so we dont run into the same pitfalls as MSTS where only a few could get the best out of the editing tools. Its not rocket science. As for another month to wait Rather that than the plethora of complaints that would have rained down on their heads if they had been "rushed out unfinished". Rather than sit and moan, make use of the month's wait to learn as much as you can about the sim and its workings.

[stewart]

And you have proof of this ?.

As I said it was stated on these forums in the past by Kuju that the tools were the same as what was used in house for developement but would be given a more user friendy interface for public release. Proof? Search the forum. Im sure you'll find the relevant post somewhere. Talking of proof, it cuts both ways.

[mickoo737]

Indeed it does, sadly l cant proove anything publically to you that wont end me in a court somewhere.

All of which leads to two conclusions,

A: The information l have is incorrect and used to make me look a pillock ( thanks but l can do that quite well myself with out outside assistance thank you )
B: Whats written here is not the same as whats being spoken elsewhere and the left hand doesnt know what the right hand is doing.

So with that and perhaps the increasing risk or liable action and possible fines and terms at her majestys pleasure l'll STFU regarding tools and licenses.

The games a crock, the feedback and support is a crock, the whole scenario stinks, some y'all might be happy to live with that, a lot are not.

And you have proof of this ?.

As I said it was stated on these forums in the past by Kuju that the tools were the same as what was used in house for developement but would be given a more user friendy interface for public release. Proof? Search the forum. Im sure you'll find the relevant post somewhere. Talking of proof, it cuts both ways.

[dkightley]

The bottom line is that there is only one set of tools.......and as stated in this thread, RSDL have until 12th November to get them delivered, otherwise the future of the sim will be damaged permanently.

I'm not sure if any more needs to be said.......

[rabid]

...The games a crock, the feedback and support is a crock, the whole scenario stinks, some y'all might be happy to live with that, a lot are not.

I think most are relieved to have a new simulator after 6 years, be it perfect or not so perfect. Apart from a few very vocal doomsayers most are optimistic that the major deficiencies will be patched at some point (hopefully sooner rather than later).

I remember that Trainz 1.0 was pretty rough when it came out, but people remained generally loyal and stuck with it, although many jumped ship later when the developers stopped listening and went down gimmick lane (industries, passengers) rather than fixing the core program first.

With all due respect you seem to be painting a picture RSD as a cloak and dagger outfit, which may be the case for all I know but I think it's maybe time for a little calm. Let's please see what we can do constructively with RS rather than pulling it and it's developers down.

Best regards,
David

[1975Supra]

yeesh !!

People moan that KRS was taking too long to ship, now (apparently) its been shipped to early. Now when theres a date for the tools people moan that the tools are taking too long to be released and am sure they will moan when they ARE released !!!!!

I for one would rather wait and not end up with another MSTS Route editor that was buggy as hell and killed routes that had taken months to develop. All the little niggles that people warned about such having no objects selected when saving any changes and all that .! We are going to get the tools Kuju used which is great, we know they work(ish), better than MS as I can't imagine the MSTS routes that shipped being created in RE, at least not without aging the route developers by 20 years!

The sim is not even a week old and people are writing it off already. If we'd all done that with MSTS there wouldn't be the dedication from freeware developers and we wouldn't have the MSTS we have now (MSTS Bin included). Whats not fixed in service packs I'm sure the community will sort out. Who would have thought 6 years ago that you'd be able to change to the other cab on a DMU in MSTS for example or the amazing quality of third party stock and routes? MS didn't provide those, enthusiasts did (and I fine job they did too).

So lets stop the ball aching and put some positive points to the development team and notify them of bugs or items that need changing and work with the team not just 'oh yeah that doesn't work, the whole sim must be .'. There's niggles, yes, and Kuju are working to resolve them but I for one am impressed at what is already available let alone what will be available in weeks / months time.

Dave

[mickoo737]

I'm not trying to paint anything, only present what l see and hear...which l can see now that no one else gives a....

Nuff said.

...The games a crock, the feedback and support is a crock, the whole scenario stinks, some y'all might be happy to live with that, a lot are not.

I think most are relieved to have a new simulator after 6 years, be it perfect or not so perfect. Apart from a few very vocal doomsayers most are optimistic that the major deficiencies will be patched at some point (hopefully sooner rather than later).

I remember that Trainz 1.0 was pretty rough when it came out, but people remained generally loyal and stuck with it, although many jumped ship later when the developers stopped listening and went down gimmick lane (industries, passengers) rather than fixing the core program first.

With all due respect you seem to be painting a picture RSD as a cloak and dagger outfit, which may be the case for all I know but I think it's maybe time for a little calm. Let's please see what we can do constructively with RS rather than pulling it and it's developers down.

Best regards,
David

[johndibben]

I have to say if I questioned Derek's unaquivocal statement I'd have Dave Babb accusing me of seeing plots and conspiracies again

That said, Michael's said many times now that the information he's being fed is at variance to Derak's statement. Now there's two sets of conclusions I can draw from that. Derek's lying or Michael's being fed stuff which isn't true. Like things simple but logic says that Derek could not make such a clear comment if it wasn't true. There'd be some clever wording or room for interpreting the statement in differing ways. I don't reckon Michael is lying. He has certain similarities to myself in that he says what he believes even if it isn't popular. Such people are useful. There's one way to tell whether the information being fed is true. You don't repeat it. If the source becomes more persistant but eventually dries up then you can work it out for yourself. At the moment he's stuffed either way, I'm afraid. He's been given information and isn't able to back it up. That appears very convenient for someone whether it be true or false.

Back on topic, I'd prefer a patch before the tools as the latter would be more useful. Realise people want to get their stuff in the sim but we've waited 6 years and one month won't hurt.

No idea what Andi's on about as usual

How can confirmation of what many want be a slap in the face?

There's reviews in other places.

Everyone's entitled to opinions but there must a limit as to how often you can say them without breaking forum rules by provoking others into a flamer.

[steampsi]

Woah there doesn't seem to be much 'community' around at the moment, just lots of angst. A few deep breaths in through the nose & out through the mouth needed. I don't let the wording of press releases insult me, they're all worded like that.

The good news:
KRS wasn't cancelled
It's still being supported / developed
Raildriver should be on the way
We now know _when_ the devtools will be out, along with docs
The graphics look pretty darn good, eg this screen is a beaut http://forums.uktrainsim.com/viewtopic. ... 16&t=75151

A rail sim is a hugely complex piece of software. It will never cater for all needs and fully cover all the minute details in all niche areas of interest. It'll never be 'fully' ready and bug free and they had to choose release point at some point.

I reckon the start point was okay, a few glitches than can be remedied and the possibility of more features to come, eg multiplayer. If it was 'forced' out early, then I think the prioritisation is appropriate.

I say relax and enjoy, work with the product not against. My 2c.

[stuartrayner]

Back on topic, I'd prefer a patch before the tools as the latter would be more useful. Realise people want to get their stuff in the sim but we've waited 6 years and one month won't hurt.

Thats a very good point John. No point having a rich toolkit if the underlying core of the sim gets patched to the extent that content created with it ceases to function properly.

Im not saying that it would, but at least you can be sure of consistency if the core issues at least are fixed before folks start modelling.

[stewart]

And the even more good news is that Railsim is going to provide support for TrackIR soon too!

[rabid]

And the even more good news is that Railsim is going to provide support for TrackIR soon too!

Really?! Where did you see that Stewart?
I have one for FSX and must admit it's excellent.

[Scritty]

So there's complaints that the game has been rushed out, and now there's complaints that the tools are not being rushed out...

Really ?

Dissapointment that they are not available now (as implied by certain mods and admins on "another site" to name but a few)

But compaints..I don't see many, and they are quite understandable.

The idea of "customer service" seems completely alien in SW development doesn't it.

Welcome to Arfur Daleys car lot.

Look, the car isn't finished, it will dissapoint , and the essential addons (and lets face it a decent Hayes manual and wheels that don't fall off are pretty darn essential for a car) won't be ready for ages. ..
Yes yes..I know we impled this and that would work, and the extras would be ready, iut they aren't. Yes We know you've already paid, and for the most part paid on the understanding that you were going to get what you were told you were going to get..but for now..tough. Complain..HOW DARE YOU... we are "artistes" striving here, sweating blood for you ungreatful philistines. Don't you realise how hard car development is. No you can't have your money back, and for that we won't even tell you when the wheels (anf handbrake) will be fixed..so nur nur to you (and if you post on our website that you don't like the situation, we'll delete it or lock it)

If there's a fundamental difference in customer supplier/relationship - between the (admiteddy sarcastic) soupcon above and what Kuju are doing now, then I can't spot it.

Regards

Paul

[johndibben]

Raildriver should be on the way

I'd like to come back on this as the previous thread on this issue was locked before I could reply.

I was astonished anyone was astonished that PIE didn't get a copy of KRS before it's release as PIE is associated with TMTS and MSTS2 who are competitors.