Atomic Systems

Okay, so KRS might not be perfect. Far from it from what I have read. However, my own personal view is that it has been about as usable out of the box as MSTS was at the time. Maybe as I spend more time with it things will grate at me a little more, but right now Im gearing up for a thrash out of York.

I seem to remember one poster back in 2001 or so pointing out that he had 'destroyed MSTS'. I never managed to work out whether he had uninstalled it literally smashed the disks up!

The thing that matters now is that a comprehensive stock taking job is done, and that RSD address the biggest issues first and foremost.

Oh yes, and that Microsoft learn from RSDs experience!

stuartrayner wrote:Okay, so KRS might not be perfect. Far from it from what I have read. However, my own personal view is that it has been about as usable out of the box as MSTS was at the time. Maybe as I spend more time with it things will grate at me a little more, but right now Im gearing up for a thrash out of York.

I seem to remember one poster back in 2001 or so pointing out that he had 'destroyed MSTS'. I never managed to work out whether he had uninstalled it literally smashed the disks up!

The thing that matters now is that a comprehensive stock taking job is done, and that RSD address the biggest issues first and foremost.

Oh yes, and that Microsoft learn from RSDs experience!

As far as I remember, MSTS never halted you when passing any clear signal if you were doing .1mph over the speed limit. Nor do I remember red signals not being preceeded by cautionary signals. With KRS you cannot rely on speed boards to tell you of the correct speed as there are alot missing and you do not get warning boards of the decrease in speed ahead. The same can be said for MSTS at the time, however the track monitor gave the necessary warnings, something that the KRS track monitor does not.

MSTS also gave an indication when you were about to be routed onto a different track a reasonable distance in advance allowing you to react if it was somewhere you shouldn't (although it also didn't terminate the session), as well as switches and actually functioning properly and being protected as they should be.

Good points, I have just experienced some of what you said, and its a little annoying to say the least.

Which all makes me wonder if anyone who actually played MSTS for any length of time, and knew which features made it easily playable, actually spent any time in the RS beta-testing. In fact I'm increasingly wondering if there actually was any RS beta-testing, and not just in-house alpha-testing by the developers to ensure it doesn't crash (the game-engine that is, not the trains).

stuartrayner wrote:Okay, so KRS might not be perfect. Far from it from what I have read. However, my own personal view is that it has been about as usable out of the box as MSTS was at the time.

Quite right if taken overall.

Here's a list of some of the MSTS1 bugs and defects.

1) The front coupler only worked occasionally and when it did a huge amount of force was required to move a train. Two activities required the front coupler.

2) Frame rates were terrible on US routes with an average computer.

3) The signals would be likely to leave you waiting forever on a single track with loops.

4) The couplers broke for no reason. There's activity downloadable from UKTS at this present time for the Cambrian which cannot be completed as older wagons required to use it were never converted.

5) The sounds were OK for accellerating but deccellerating they simply stopped.

6) Put a DMU in reverse and you hurtled backwards and through the buffers.

7) The default stock was appalling. The nose of the Dash-9 is completely wrong.

Always comes up as a smiley.

9) The activities were few and some were silly and lasted for a few minutes.

10) Customers were hopping mad.

I was there.

This is the truth.

I will back you up John, as I was not far behind you.

phill70 wrote:I will back you up John, as I was not far behind you.

Ta

Getting a bit fed up of people rewriting history and attempting to give newcomers the correct perspective.

Can't speak for anyone else, but personally I just posted my opinions of how MSTS was for me personally when I got it, I know I made no attempt to "rewrite history"

NicolaFan06 wrote:Can't speak for anyone else, but personally I just posted my opinions of how MSTS was for me personally when I got it, I know I made no attempt to "rewrite history"

I could write pages on that but the thread is about Richard's discontent which he later tempered and later the comparison the release of MSTS1 was made but has been challenged.

It has been said the original MSTS1 release was better than the original release of KRS.

That, at best, is very debatable.

With the original release of MSTS, I was able to install it and after playing the diesel tutorial, complete an activity without needing to refer to the manual once. Everything worked correctly, and I knew what I was doing because all the important points had been explained.

With KRS, you are flying on your own from the start. I don't need a tutorial but most people who buy it will, and they wont have a clue what to do on the main-menu screen to get started (remember MSTS made learning the product easily accesible by having 'Tutorials' as one of the four options on the first menu). We are familiar with rail simulation products so have been able to use KRS with varying degrees of bugs, but newcomers to the genre don't stand a chance with it.

Whilst MSTS wasn't perfect, it was at least accessible, whereas KRS is frustrating and annoying even to experienced train-simmers.

PrinceGaz wrote:With the original release of MSTS, I was able to install it and after playing the diesel tutorial, complete an activity without needing to refer to the manual once. Everything worked correctly, and I knew what I was doing because all the important points had been explained.

With KRS, you are flying on your own from the start. I don't need a tutorial but most people who buy it will, and they wont have a clue what to do on the main-menu screen to get started (remember MSTS made learning the product easily accesible by having 'Tutorials' as one of the four options on the first menu). We are familiar with rail simulation products so have been able to use KRS with varying degrees of bugs, but newcomers to the genre don't stand a chance with it.

Whilst MSTS wasn't perfect, it was at least accessible, whereas KRS is frustrating and annoying even to experienced train-simmers.

I'd agree there should be tutorial but imagine most could read the keyboard commands and get started.

All the information is there in the box and in the manuals for the unexperienced to drive a train. It's not as user friendly though. I've no idea what an unexperienced trainsimmer is able to learn though.

Ok,

As someone who started with MSTS on the day of release, and almost screemed for joy when he downloaded James Hunt's HST model from, I can't remember the sites name now (railsimfiles.com?) I do think the carping on this site is getting too much. Compare those early days to RS and we have come a long way. This is not to say that RS does not have serious issues - but note Derek's comment - we are here and making a long list. I have to say that made me smile - the game has been out three days, lets see where it is in three months.
Had MSTS simply been remove from hardisks, it would never have looked as it does. I fully admit that I have never been involved in the products development, but I am very indebted to those who have been. Lets see where this goes. Compared to the early days of MSTS we have come so far.
John, as ever, spot on on your comments

Robin

hi everyone i installed rail sim and what a dissapointment it was , the only thing what looks good on it are the engines but one thing no ones mentioned on the forums is when they announced the rail sim was being created a few people asked will we be able to use all our routes of msts1 on the new rail sim and kuju replyed you would be able to use the routes. so what happened to that as like a lot problems with this rail sim its not there all in all 30 quid wasted i will sit and wait to see how it developes then i just might go back to it but in the mean time my msts1 will stay on my comp ..

RobindeJones wrote:Ok,

As someone who started with MSTS on the day of release, and almost screemed for joy when he downloaded James Hunt's HST model from, I can't remember the sites name now (railsimfiles.com?) I do think the carping on this site is getting too much. Compare those early days to RS and we have come a long way. This is not to say that RS does not have serious issues - but note Derek's comment - we are here and making a long list. I have to say that made me smile - the game has been out three days, lets see where it is in three months.
Had MSTS simply been remove from hardisks, it would never have looked as it does. I fully admit that I have never been involved in the products development, but I am very indebted to those who have been. Lets see where this goes. Compared to the early days of MSTS we have come so far.
John, as ever, spot on on your comments

Robin

Don't encourage me

Agree with you and remember the pioneering days at Trainsimfiles and Tim Booth's pannier tank and class 47 as well. The website crashed and we'd swear and curse but there was an excitement which overcame all obstacles. I relish such situations.

I fear entrenched views and impossible demands have dented KRS but the whole idea of a community was to overcome anything and in many respects it succeeded without any support. Those like youself see opportunites and are optomistic. That's how it was. It wasn't easy. There were problems from day one. Such was the excitement that we moaned but also cheered at anything which was offered.

That might sound naive after some very turbulant years but there is an opportunity for a fresh start if people want it enough and appreciate that which we have and not that which we would like.