Atomic Systems

I live in Lincolnshire and quite near by is a level crossing on the railway line between Peterborough and Sleaford and Lincoln. For several weeks now maintenance work has been carried out on this crossing at weekends, with the crossing closed and awkward diversions in place.
Today signs still state that the crossing is closed and direct traffic to the diversions, but in fact the crossing is open and there is no sign whatsoever of workers or maintenance work. This is causing some confusion.
If the signs have not been removed by tomorrow morning there will be serious consequences, for the road concerned is a busy one and the diversions mean traffic has to enter roads which are already nose to tail with traffic.
Bring a public spirited fellow I thought I would contact the police and let them know; they could then make sure that things were normal tomorrow morning. Easier said than done!
I eventually got hold of a police office which was manned – 40 miles away – and they obviously had no idea of what I was talking about. Eventually I was put through to another number, where a female did listen to my report. She aked me if I had reported it to Network Rail.
I told her that I neither had a contact with Network Rail nor did I think that it was my job to contact them. However she insisted on giving me a number. I then told her that as a member of the public and nearly 88 years old, I would do no more - road traffic control was not my job.
Which brings me to my point – what are the police for?
Tony

Very good question Tony, a while a go a neighbour down the bottom of our road was selling up and moved out leaving his teenage son in the Bungalow until it was finally sold on. One evening the said teenager decided he'd have a few drinks and play some music with the patio door open in the small hours of the morning. I went down the street in my dressing gown and tried to get his attention about the fact it was after 0100hrs and it wasn't really the time to play music at such a loud level. After giving up on knocking his door I returned home and rang the police to report the disturbance he was creating, the answer I recieved suprised me and my partner and I let the woman at the other end what I thought off her, she said it wasn't anthing to do with the Police anymore and was a Council issue which at 0100hrs was a fat lot of good.........oh well I'll just keep paying that Council tax
Simon

To be fair to the police Tony; surely it is the council/Network Rail's responsibility to ensure the signs are removed not the Police?

I would not even think of ringing the Police up if I noticed road signs up that needed removing - I would be onto the council first.

Correct. The highways agency are responsible for the diversion and associated signage, not the Police... nor Network Rail for that matter.

Although I have been around for a long time, like the majority of my fellow citizens I find it impossible to keep track of "who does what" amonst the many local and state authorities. When there are problems on the roads . whoever is responsible and whatever the cause, it is normally the police who are in attendance. It is not for me. a member of the public, to ring around local autborites, utility agencies and contractors to solve a road problem. I am unrepentant (and somewhat annoyed at the suggestion that it is my fault)
In the "olde days" it was acceptable to sing "If you want to know the time, ask a policeman" Now you are more likely to become the centre of a public controversy if you do so. I stand by my heading.
And incidentally it is extremely difficult to c0ntact the police on a Sunday morning - try it with your local or county council or probably even Network Rail.
I am tempted to start a referendum to see how many of us know the appropriate authorites for all the things which go wrong such as street lights, pot holes, sewage overflows, dumped waste.

Tony (aged 87 and 9 months)

The police are there essentially to keep and uphold the law. It's only us the general public who have demanded that they do more, and when they do more or too much we complain about it, also when we consider they have not done enough we complain about it. As for telling the time, we do have clocks and watches.

Tony,

Of course you are right!

What on earth are the rest of you talking about!!!!

Whoever the "responsibility" for the work is the fact is that the Police have a responsibilty for road safety and SHOULD have access to (and training in) who to contact in such cases. They are a public service paid for by those of us who pay taxes.

I recently spotted two youths walking along a third rail electrified track near my home. Not exactly headline stopping stuff and I was aware of the fact that there is a contact number for non emergency calls. However as I was walking the dog some distance from home (and therefore away from such information) I called 999.

Didn't seem like rocket science to me and quite expected to be passed through to the Transport Police who have a high profile here in London. Instead I get to speak to a guy the other side of London who took so long to actually FAIL to find my location ...any of you would find it in seconds on the internet!!!! Instead of passing me to the transport police this guy spent a staggering 20 minutes failing to locate the incident. In the end I rather irritably told him I really don't have any more time to spend on this. By now they will be a mile away and will have disappeared so I'm not prepared to waste any more of my time on it. I asked the guy on the phone why he couldn't just Google the post code and get up a map. With that it would be blindingly obvious where I'd seen them. He was terribly apologetic and regretted that this just wasn't possible on their system!!!

A few years ago I had a stone thrown at me by kids from a motorway bridge on the M3. I was so shocked at the sound of it hitting the windscreen (which stayed intact) that I pulled off at the next service area where I knew the Police had a base to report it. The breakdown crews there told me to use their phone to report it. I was met with "Well there's no point in us coming because they see us coming down the motorway and run off .....????!!!! To which I replied "Well here's a trick! DON'T come down the motorway. Use a map and drive to the bridge!!!!

A few months later a driver was killed by some cretins dropping a paving slab on his truck from another nearby bridge.

So Tony I echo your question.

I also ask why would anyone bother to be public spirited after such constant stupidity? Well some of us grew up with a spirit of "Civic Responsibility". We were even taught "Civics" as a seperate subject at school...... but lets not get started on "dumbing down"?

Geoff

Good morning everyone
I can add to Geoffs comments about stupidity
My best friend Damian is a Security Guard and last Year he was locking the gates at the container company where he works
Suddenly a group of youths appeared one carrying a gun he levelled the hand gun at Damian and pulled the trigger
Damian said he felt the bullet literally part the hair on his head
Needless to say he telephoned the Police ....When they eventually turned up the officer said Oh it was probrably a paper gun
Damian was absolutely astounded by this crass comment
The area where Damian works is notorious for gang land culture which the authorities seem unwilling or unable to tackle?
He still works at the same place and has done for twelve Years now
Kind regards Stephen

I was going to bed the other night when my wife told me that I had left the light on in the shed, she could see from the bedroom window. As I looked for myself, I saw that there were people in the shed taking things. I phoned the police, but they told me that no one was in this area to help at this time, but they would send someone over as soon as they would be available.

I said OK, hung up, and waited one minute, then phoned the police back. "Hello. I just called you a minute ago because there were people in my shed. Well, you don't have to worry about them now cause I've shot them all." And within minutes there were half a dozen police cars in the area, an Armed Response unit, the works. Of course, they caught the burglars red-handed. One of the officers said: "I thought you said that you'd shot them!"

I replied with "I thought you said there was nobody available!"..........

Cheers
Jon

I recently spotted two youths walking along a third rail electrified track near my home. Not exactly headline stopping stuff and I was aware of the fact that there is a contact number for non emergency calls. However as I was walking the dog some distance from home (and therefore away from such information) I called 999

Sorry but in my mind that is an entirely different scenario. Tresspassing on railway property is a criminal offence that in its self warrants police attendance, the fact that these jokers were walking up a running line and a 3rd rail line at that presents a real risk to safety which makes police action all the more necessary.

danielw2599 wrote:

I recently spotted two youths walking along a third rail electrified track near my home. Not exactly headline stopping stuff and I was aware of the fact that there is a contact number for non emergency calls. However as I was walking the dog some distance from home (and therefore away from such information) I called 999

Sorry but in my mind that is an entirely different scenario. Tresspassing on railway property is a criminal offence that in its self warrants police attendance, the fact that these jokers were walking up a running line and a 3rd rail line at that presents a real risk to safety which makes police action all the more necessary.

We'll have to agree to differ on that. The object of the police force, unlike "Life on Mars" is not just "nicking" people.

None the less the same issue is involved. In most cases retold here someone manning a Police Switchboard was unable to locate the problem, neither were they able or trained to connect the member of the public to the correct authority. The Emergency Services are the only 24/7 service. Most others are Mon-Fri 9-5. In London the Transport Police don't just ride up and down on the trains and patrol/loiter on stations. They have a fleet of vehicles for just such incidents ...and often to respond to their tragic consequences. Two local youths killed spraying Graphitti on the Viaduct at Hanwell not too long ago .

Basically we've got a service that public spending cuts has bought about. Succesive governments of all shades have been keen to headline tax cuts to win favour but these are paid for by cutting back services. "So called" efficiency cuts? Well chatting to controllers 15 or 40 miles away who have no local knowledge is in NO WAY efficient or effective. Even when the police do attend here in London now they have no local knowledge as they commute across London to work and because of vehicles and moving round of personnel they rarely have a clue about any local issues. Only if there has been a major trouble spot do they relate to locations. Not the coppers fault? He just does the job the way it's been organised for him or her to do it.

IMHO they need more training, an "old fashioned" beat area so that they gain local knowledge, more recognition of the efectiveness of warnings or cautions or chats (rather than deciding success on convinctions ....when often prosecutions aren't persude because the evidence isn't "safe") and less revenue collection and more policing of safety issues. Much of this is NOT the coppers fault. It's what the politicians and "so called managers" in the forces have outlined to justify their fat salaries. Too much ticking boxes and doing "revues" and far too little doing the job that's actually needed.

BTW I spent the last 35 years in education and the same malaise has developed there too. I'm sure any health care workers would agree with my assessment too? Standards have to be maintained and checked ....but more efforts seem to go into the checking than the actual tasks nowadays

Geoff

BTW I find it staggering that the Police have IT systems that can read my number plate, check me and my vehicle and it's relevant documentation at the flick of a switch but they can't at reporting level find a location in sceonds. The AA and RAC can do that and have been able to for years?

lateagain wrote:The object of the police force, unlike "Life on Mars" is not just "nicking" people.

Indeed - the object of the police force is to uphold the law.

That does not mean take responsibility for signs left over from some maintenance job - should we all start ringing the police to complain about sleepers left by the side of the railways?

Any organisation will have issues with systems at times; however the public in general are only willing to complain about them - nobody ever seems willing to take a lead in how things can be done more efficiently. For instance we have about 3/4 different databases at work none of which are interlinked and the one I use on a day-to-day basis probably could do all the jobs the others do if implemented properly; however nobody has ever taken the time to investigate and market it to the rest of the company

There is a difference between signs on public roads which affect the way people drive, and what goes on on the private property of a railway line.

Tony

Yes, one warrants police input and the other (in this instance) doesn't.

Tonysmedley wrote:There is a difference between signs on public roads which affect the way people drive, and what goes on on the private property of a railway line.

Tony

Until some vandals get hold of the rubbish at the side of the railway and block the line with it? Then who do you contact?