Level Crossings

[ziggyshadowdust]

Maybe it's time DOE made some adverts to show what would happen if a pedestrian or car tries to beat the train at a level crossing and fails, and have a pre-watershed and post-watershed version specifically for pedestrians. That'll teach people like that one in the report who missed the train by inches never to do it again, because it's either you make it, or you die.

What human can survive being hit by a train travelling 50/60 mph? It's more than just being hit by a train, there is a potential of being sliced in half by the trains wheels.

[GlennMitchell]

It's more than just being hit by a train, there is a potential of being sliced in half by the trains wheels.

We had some railway legislation lectures and our lecturer was chatting with us and said that most people when hit by high speed trains get split into pieces when the get hit anyway. Apparently its the poor engineers that find arms and legs in the bushes when they are out working in the case of very high speed collisions

Also think of the stress on the poor drivers after killing someone

Glenn

[danielw2599]

Yes, the Network Rail adverts do need to be alot more hard hitting (no pun intended). If it works for the "Think!" campaign, why not the railways?

[geezertronic]

Apparently its the poor engineers that find arms and legs in the bushes when they are out working in the case of very high speed collisions

My parents live backing onto the WCML in Marston Green (between Birmingham International/New Street). When I was a kid, it was a lovely sunny day so we were lounging around in the garden noting that there were no trains going past. Then we heard workmen shouting "I've found his arm... here's his leg... what's this piece Bill...". Apparently they never found his head which exploded by all accounts.

Whilst it has nothing to do with a Level Crossing fatality, it's a true story of what happened to a jumper meeting a loco.

[GlennMitchell]

It does and I'm thinking of specialising in track engineering in year 2 of uni

Glenn

[johncas]

Yeh and when there caught they say they was not driving

And yes we all seen it happen as trainspotters we even film it happening I caught one on video as seen below the lights and siren have already come on but that black \ blue people carrier still goes through what if barriers had come down fast
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4EtZsMu3jrw

[johncas]

Yeh and when there caught they say they was not driving the car at the time well should still pay the fine don't let other people drive your car and go through the red lights

And yes we all seen it happen as trainspotters we even film it happening I caught one on video as seen below the lights and siren have already come on but that black \ blue people carrier still goes through what if barriers had come down fast
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4EtZsMu3jrw

[thenudehamster]

This is, and will continue to be, an ongoing problem.
Partly simple idiocy on the part of the motorists (they're not drivers, they just happen to know how to make a car go and stop) partly the 'can't stop' requirement of modern lifestyles, partly the short-sighted policy of removing four-gate crossings which you could NOT beat and installing barriers which you can - and if you can, people will DO!
Stiffer sentences will not help, neither will more graphic adverts; they'll only sometimes stop the one offender - you only have to look at the number of repeat drunk-drivers to see that. It's always a case of "It won't happen to me - I'm too good!"

As far as I can see there are two possible solutions:
1. Go back to the old-fashioned, but very effective, four-gated crossings. Modern automation would make them viable and they can be locked into the closed position.
2. Install regular, normal traffic lights, complete with a red-light camera, and as soon as the red light comes on, shut the crossing. Half the problem is that it takes so long for the barriers to come down, then another minute for the train to arrive, people 'know' that they have plenty of time to beat the train.

If I remember correctly, Wokingham (I try to avoid the crossing if I'm delivering in that area) has normal traffic lights as it's a complex junction as well as a crossing, as does David Lane in Basford, Nottingham, and I don't ever remember an 'accident' at either crossing.
Until people realise that a red light means STOP - and it'll hit you in the wallet if you don't - the problem will remain.

[spartacus]

Simply you can't replace the crossing lights with regular crossing signals. Perhaps there are other considerations in the examples you give, but nobosy is ever allowed to pass the crossing lights. You are allowed to pass normal lights under certain circumstances.

I assume every crossing would have to be CCTV monitored and protected by signals in your example. If you shut the crossing as soon as the lights come on, what happens to the old dear crossing, or equally the idiot who has stopped in a line of traffic on the crossing?

[beresford]

Howsabout retaining the half-barriers but placing a central barrier in the road leading up to the crossing? The exit remains clear if the half-barrier closes but it is almost impossible to zig-zag around it.

[alexnick]

I think the latest Russian solution may interest you.

Newly installed level crossings in Russia actually raise an obstacle in the roadway*, ensuring that nothing gets past. (However, this is only a small minority). Nonetheless, it might be something worth considering in the UK, if people won't stop at conventional lights and barriers.

AN

*mostly a metal flap in the roadway, but few also raise tire-shredding devices. This may be a much worse idea, however. The latter certainly shouldn't be replicated in Britain!

[danielw2599]

Howsabout retaining the half-barriers but placing a central barrier in the road leading up to the crossing? The exit remains clear if the half-barrier closes but it is almost impossible to zig-zag around it.

Something like this would be good....



Or a raised island with keep left bollards.

This is, and will continue to be, an ongoing problem.
Partly simple idiocy on the part of the motorists (they're not drivers, they just happen to know how to make a car go and stop) partly the 'can't stop' requirement of modern lifestyles, partly the short-sighted policy of removing four-gate crossings which you could NOT beat and installing barriers which you can - and if you can, people will DO!
Stiffer sentences will not help, neither will more graphic adverts; they'll only sometimes stop the one offender - you only have to look at the number of repeat drunk-drivers to see that. It's always a case of "It won't happen to me - I'm too good!".

Stiffer penalties would be a start.

As far as I can see there are two possible solutions:
1. Go back to the old-fashioned, but very effective, four-gated crossings. Modern automation would make them viable and they can be locked into the closed position.

What are these "four-gate" crossing you talk of?

2. Install regular, normal traffic lights, complete with a red-light camera, and as soon as the red light comes on, shut the crossing. Half the problem is that it takes so long for the barriers to come down, then another minute for the train to arrive, people 'know' that they have plenty of time to beat the train.

Think you must have your timings confused there. With AHB crossings, the barriers are down within the first few seconds with the train not being that far away. All in all, the minium time from the lights going on to when the train passes is 27 seconds with most being timed in the region of 35-40 seconds on average.

Full barrier crossings are a little different as they are linked to the singnals, hence the reason it takes a while for the train to arrive as they must arrive on green aspects.

If I remember correctly, Wokingham (I try to avoid the crossing if I'm delivering in that area) has normal traffic lights as it's a complex junction as well as a crossing, as does David Lane in Basford, Nottingham, and I don't ever remember an 'accident' at either crossing.
Until people realise that a red light means STOP - and it'll hit you in the wallet if you don't - the problem will remain.

If people are going to ignore flashing reds, why would they take any notice of a normal road traffic signal? As Spartacus points out below, flashing red signals indicate that no one may pass them (even emergency services on a call), not the same for traffic lights

[ralph0chadkirk]

I read somewhere that the limit for a AHB crossing to the train is 4 minutes? This was quite a while ago so I could be wrong

The cameras already installed on crossings don't see the numberplate - just the whole crossing. Maybe a targeted campaign by BTP, using a zero-tolerance method and ANPR systems?

The problem with raising tyre shredders is if somebody is stuck on the crossing, they are never going to get off.

What would work best is a THINK! style advert. Post watershed obviously

[danielw2599]

I don't think 4 minutes for an AHB is quite correct, at least ive never heard of that amount of time. That is just inviting motorists to zig zag the barriers which is why the current standards are in place.

Your right about the cameras, most of them are there purely to see that the crossing is clear. However most high risk crossings (by that I mean those that have history of abuse/damage) are fitted with red light cameras in conjuction with regular CCTV.

[gswindale]

It is a good few minutes for some crossings.

Star Lane in Wokingham is timed at being down for about 25minutes each hour - this based on 2 trains in each direction per hour.