Tram Trains

[6rdfar90]

Did anyone ever find out where the Government was willing to try the "New" Tram Trains in the UK? I know it was supposed to be sometime this week, But I wasn't sure If I'd missed it or what.


Anyone know? And does anyone know where apart from Leeds has been shortlisted for the scheme?

[johncard]

This has been going on for some time...

http://www.wymetro.com/ProjectsAndPlans ... Trains.htm

[LeeEAS]

Isn't the tram in the photo just an unbranded version of the Nottingham trams?

[johncard]

I know it's not really answering the question but there's some interesting snippets here and here, the comments are quite entertaining and occasionally informed... First might be wishing they'd kept quiet BTW.

As far as stations at the hospital/Haxby/Strensall go, I would think the best plan long term would be to implement a Metro-style operation with frequent trains calling at Copmanthorpe or Bishopthorpe, adjacent to Askham Bar P&R (which is already there!), Dringhouses, City Station, Clifton/Hospital, a new P&R site either off Wigginton Road (planned) or Haxby Gates - whichever would generate more custom, Haxby (max pax/walking distance) and Strensall (ditto).

Of course the treasury wouldn't swallow enough though, and the govt would not see it as a priority over other such schemes they're not funding in any case, which is why I assume any spin-off from an 'experiment' for Leeds would be gratefully received.

[AlistairW]

A First spokesman said: "We welcome this feasibility report that will look at further ways to encourage people to travel by public transport.

HAHA - I love the PR machine.

On a serious note looks good, shame that the DfT only really get interested when somebody mentions 'but it's cheaper than...'

Would be interesting to see how it would affect passenger numbers on the route, aren't Leeds and York railway stations already quite close to the centre? Would the Leeds - York Via Harrogate route become seperated from the rest of the network, I/E it become impossible to operate heavy rail services over the route or would it be a mix of the two?

It's not a photo-shopped Nottingham tram, they have more articulated sections.

Cheers,
Ali

[johncard]

God knows. I get the impression at the moment they don't really know where it would run, just putting ideas to the table in anticipation of this feasibility report.

I take it you noticed the peeps ripping apart the comment "...York will benefit from any new schemes that complement the excellent bus and ftr services run by First"!!

That guy bwhughes (14th post down in the second link) posted all sorts of ideas for street running in York in another forum including maps etc terminating in Parliament St. To be fair it would be nice for weary commuters, the disabled and the idle to get dropped off in the city centre, but from Harrogate?!! I doubt it would make economic sense and would result in seriously green faces in 'dormitory villages' if Harrogate benefitted from such a route at their expense.

But then again, if it isn't their money there's no point in York staring a gift horse in the mouth. Metro's involved, York's outside their remit yet may get a share of the spoils and, most importantly, the govt seems to be interested as well. Happy days.

[MoonKid47]

I raise my hand for the Manchester Metrolink, as thats voted for as a Tram-Train......

[johncard]

http://www.transporttimes.co.uk/;news;item/12/435/

Looks interesting

[dkightley]

First we had LRTs......now we have Tram-trains! But what's the difference??

I can confirm the illustrated tram-trains are not NET trams.....but look very much like Bombadier products.

[richard222]

Those trams are found in Karlsruhe, Germany

[johncard]

Come on folks, why on earth would they be NET trams? You only have to click the link to the right, they're German!

http://www.wymetro.com/ProjectsAndPlans ... lleybuses/

[dkightley]

Told you they were Bombardier:
http://www.bombardier.com/index.jsp?id= ... _0/1_0.jsp

Select Rail Vehicles >>> Light Rail >>> FLEXITY Link

[mattvince]

Saarbrucken, I think you'll find.

Tram-Trains are distinctive in that they are approved for use over the traditional 'heavy' rail network, as well as on tramways - and can use both in the course of one journey. Manchester might be considered a tram-train, but is actually wholly segregated from NR, with no shared-use operation. That said, Manchester might well be the best opportunity for real Tram-Trains - the high-platform existing operation makes extending over NR simply a case of linking the two networks, putting up OHLE (as appropriate) and building suitable vehicles. Even 25kV is not a problem - a transformer/rectifier pack can allow dual-voltage operation - as the German tram-trains have demonstrated (with 15kV AC/600-750V DC). The hardest part will be getting the structural design approved - probably less of an issue with Metrolink as the floors are ~900mm above railhead, compared to the low-floor trams found elsewhere.

The concept of Tram-Train is one with other applications, particularly on rural lines. For starters, Line-of-Sight operation means signal boxes would not need to be manned (either abolished altogether or simply 'switched out') - with possibly some points converted to spring-operation (in tramway style). That means the train service is not dependant on any small wayside 'boxes being open (only the larger boxes at the ends of the routes which are normally manned up to 24hrs/day) - so earlier/later trains can operate, significantly improving the route's market potential. The use of lighter train designs reduces track maintenance requirements, and should also reduce fuel consumption. Very possibly the new 'tram-trains' could be cheaper to build - as the existing Pacer/Sprinter types are set for withdrawal in the next ten years, then the survival of many routes could be dependant on cheaper replacements.

[ianmacmillan]

The Department for Transport and Network Rail have said it may be four years before they make a decision where tram-trains will be introduced, and this will depend on the outcome of the tests.


Why 4 years?

[mattvince]

The Department for Transport and Network Rail have said it may be four years before they make a decision where tram-trains will be introduced, and this will depend on the outcome of the tests.


Why 4 years?

Because making a decision now, or pushing for larger-scale demonstrations (as opposed to 'insignificant branch line' demonstrations - read: Stourbridge Town Parry People Mover) smacks of decisiveness and action. Better to spend as little money on a few minor trials (too small for most of the manufacturers to want to be involved) and appear to be investigating, than to commit - this way, presumably DfT hopes the problem will go away of its own accord. Of course, in four years time the agenda may well be entirely different - The Gord has to hold an election between now and then, so who knows who could be in power.