Atomic Systems

Set 390033 (The Grayrigg Accident Set) was written off last month after the repair bill was estimated at £20m (more than a new train set I think). There are rumours that along with an 11th carriage for the remaining 52 pendolinos 4 new sets could be built as well, one to replace #33 and 3 others to allow the Liverpools to go half hourly.

Of course the DaFT haven't had their say yet.

Cheers,
Ali

Not the whole set surely? Given how much these things cost could they not pair up the rear half with a new front half?

johncard wrote:Not the whole set surely? Given how much these things cost could they not pair up the rear half with a new front half?

Possibly, the magazine mentions that there are 3 vehicles that could be placed in store as strategic spares, although buying a new front half does sound more economic.

AlistairW wrote:

johncard wrote:Not the whole set surely? Given how much these things cost could they not pair up the rear half with a new front half?

Possibly, the magazine mentions that there are 3 vehicles that could be placed in store as strategic spares, although buying a new front half does sound more economic.

Woahh, £20m is a hell of a lot. How much does one full set cost to build?

I think 5 of the 390033 vehicles were written off. Which leaves 4 repairable.

Of course, should there be another incident (heaven forbid, but these things do happen from time to time) they'll be well and truly stuffed for trains to run the WCML services.

Esurient wrote:

AlistairW wrote:

johncard wrote:Not the whole set surely? Given how much these things cost could they not pair up the rear half with a new front half?

Possibly, the magazine mentions that there are 3 vehicles that could be placed in store as strategic spares, although buying a new front half does sound more economic.

Woahh, £20m is a hell of a lot. How much does one full set cost to build?

Well I think Turbostars are about £1.3m or so for a carriage but a website I just checked said the original Pendolino order was £1.2bn for 433 carriages which works out at around £2.7m per coach, so a new set would cost £27m. But this cost includes a maintenance contract.

arabiandisco wrote:Of course, should there be another incident (heaven forbid, but these things do happen from time to time) they'll be well and truly stuffed for trains to run the WCML services.

3 possibilities -
Wreck 2 half Pendos, need 1 set to run the service, 2 halves make 1
Lease an Anglia class 90/mk3 set and cover the shortfall with a HST set (?)
Convince Eurostar that the French don't really need all the "regional" sets (could you imagine people's faces as an SNCF branded Eurostar rolled into Piccadilly proporting to be a VWC train)

johncard - Short term sticking plasters, not a long-term solution.

DaFT aren't interested in anything other than IEP - one of the options for IEP deployment is on the West Coast semi-fasts (unbelievably, Kings X-Kings Lynn is another option - causing a few raised eyebrows). With the continued dithering of DfT over the 11-car Pendolino option, I can't see them signing off a contract for another four whole sets, no matter how necessary they are. If another four sets are to be built, then why not also a batch of five/six/seven-car sets to work the residual Cross-Country service (BHM-GLA), freeing up Voyagers for AXC? And, perhaps some to work the West Coast Semis and Cobblers? Or is that too much like ensuring 'standardised' fleets and performance across the WCML's Fast Lines?

And what of the shifting sands of Electrification? An improved Pendolino would fit in very nicely along other routes where track geometry restricts speeds - such as Trans-Pennine.

Oh yes absolutely, was trying to be humorous aswell.

mattvince wrote: DaFT

Department aren't For Transport

Esurient wrote:

AlistairW wrote:

johncard wrote:Not the whole set surely? Given how much these things cost could they not pair up the rear half with a new front half?

Possibly, the magazine mentions that there are 3 vehicles that could be placed in store as strategic spares, although buying a new front half does sound more economic.

Woahh, £20m is a hell of a lot. How much does one full set cost to build?

problem isnt the original cost per carraige...
but the fact that any new order will be for fewer cars and material costs have gone up so the cost per carraige for new vehicles will be higher than for the originals....

n863dwt wrote:problem isnt the original cost per carraige...
but the fact that any new order will be for fewer cars and material costs have gone up so the cost per carraige for new vehicles will be higher than for the originals....

True not to mention the cost of setting the production line up, come to think of it, if the DaFT aren't sure about adding extra carriages I can hardly see them being keen to approve 4 more units as well.

Cheers,
Ali

AlistairW wrote:

n863dwt wrote:problem isnt the original cost per carraige...
but the fact that any new order will be for fewer cars and material costs have gone up so the cost per carraige for new vehicles will be higher than for the originals....

True not to mention the cost of setting the production line up, come to think of it, if the DaFT aren't sure about adding extra carriages I can hardly see them being keen to approve 4 more units as well.

Cheers,
Ali

Though the economies of scale if that were to happen would improve matters. As would ordering a fleet for BHM-GLA & the LM fast services (now there's an idea sufficiently good to be complete pie in the sky...).

I think the 11 car pendo vehicles were included in the "1000 extra carraigaes" that the Department Against Transport announced a while back.

arabiandisco wrote:Though the economies of scale if that were to happen would improve matters. As would ordering a fleet for BHM-GLA & the LM fast services (now there's an idea sufficiently good to be complete pie in the sky...).

I think the 11 car pendo vehicles were included in the "1000 extra carraigaes" that the Department Against Transport announced a while back.

Good thinking, what currently operates Birmingham - Glasgow, Voyagers?

Voyagers and Pendolinos I think