442 to Hull?

shaun123 · Post by **shaun123** » Sun Apr 15, 2007 9:47 pm

I agree if the 158 keeps at a solid 90 mph for most of the way it shouldnt fall to far behind timetable.

mattvince · Post by **mattvince** » Sun Apr 15, 2007 10:14 pm

Class 158s will never be allowed at 100mph, not least as they were never designed to do 100mph for continuous periods, nor do they have the necessary structural strength for 100mph. Hull Trains services are timed for '222s' at 125mph - the slight speed differential (even ignoring the blistering 15hp/t performance of '222s') of 35mph makes a big difference. Hull Trains are timed to do the 156-mile Doncaster-London leg in about 1h45 minutes with typically two stops en-route = average speed 90mph. Fastest southbound SX run is the 10.11 Hull-KGX, timed for 1h40 with two stops (93mph). As a 158 will only manage an average of 75-80mph, the train will be at least 15 minutes late arriving KGX - more likely it will miss its path through Welwyn North and be even later. At least with 110mph '67s', the speed differential is that much less so is likely to keep its path.

Whitemoor · Post by **Whitemoor** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 12:31 am

when it was operated by 170s at 100mph, they were frequently 5 - 10misn EARLY into Grantham ex London, now operting as a 222 unit, they often catch up a 225 set and are delayed 1-2 mins in to grantham.

Theroy suggests a 67 set running at 100mph would need to run at a 170 timetable, not the present 222 timetable, as it simply wouldnt be able to keep to time.

Time will tell.

carlwestwood · Post by **carlwestwood** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 6:28 am

also remember - if you have 67 on coaching stock you have to allow for longer station stop because of the staff having to manually close ALL of the doors in the train.

salopiangrowler · Post by **salopiangrowler** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 12:16 pm

not really they did tell people to shut the doors after them. its only the people that generally think that they are being kind by leaving the doors open for the person that maybe following.

id have to dissagree with matt on the fact a 158 cant travell at 100mph whilst i was working for central trains i was in the rear cab of one on a stanstead - liverpool train and we were fastlined out of stafford the guard looked at the speedo which i found suprising to see it read the speed we were travelling and we were at 102 before the driver notched down, saying that we were 10 minutes late and a 3 car formation. Apparently happened on a regular basis untill the 125mph line increase.

MoonKid47 · Post by **MoonKid47** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 4:53 pm

salopiangrowler wrote: id have to dissagree with matt on the fact a 158 cant travell at 100mph whilst i was working for central trains i was in the rear cab of one on a stanstead - liverpool train and we were fastlined out of stafford the guard looked at the speedo which i found suprising to see it read the speed we were travelling and we were at 102 before the driver notched down, saying that we were 10 minutes late and a 3 car formation. Apparently happened on a regular basis untill the 125mph line increase.

Damn, and the MSTS model only makes 93mph Max

mattvince · Post by **mattvince** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 8:06 pm

SG - And in today's world, that is a disciplinary offence for the driver. If 158s were deployed regularly on turns requiring speeding to achieve the timetable, then the operator could also fall into deep hock with the Rail Regulator. It's not about what the equipment can do, it's what you are permitted to do. The permitted maximum is 90mph.

salopiangrowler · Post by **salopiangrowler** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 9:33 pm

i completely agree with you on that point. and with the TPWS im not sure wether it can stop a train from travelling over the max speed the black box would certainly have the driver facing disaplinary action.

It's not about what the equipment can do, it's what you are permitted to do.

Agreed!!!! to a point i could ramble on about preserved lines going against the Light Railway Act.

Pompeyfan · Post by **Pompeyfan** » Sat Apr 21, 2007 1:17 pm

why couldn't they hire in a voyager from virgin? or a meridan from MML, even a 2+5 hst. i understand the hst would not be able to keep to time because its a HST, (god there . at accelerating) even a 180 (even thought not trained)

salopiangrowler · Post by **salopiangrowler** » Sat Apr 21, 2007 3:13 pm

virgin are/were short themselves hence 1s41 has been a MML liveried HST for a while.

I dont think MML get on with Hull trains.

Pompeyfan · Post by **Pompeyfan** » Sat Apr 21, 2007 3:17 pm

how can toc's not get along with each other.... shorley the DfT need to get involved her and tell MML to hand one over? shorley this would be the best bet? no new stock to familierise with etc.

richard222 · Post by **richard222** » Sat Apr 21, 2007 4:39 pm

salopiangrowler wrote:virgin are/were short themselves hence 1s41 has been a MML liveried HST for a while.

I dont think MML get on with Hull trains.

Doubt FGW would mind though.

salopiangrowler · Post by **salopiangrowler** » Sat Apr 21, 2007 5:22 pm

FGW got a load of stuff they dont use hardly. but ill settle for a 158 on the Hull's anyday it wouldnt bother me i wouldnt be travelling on the service.

arabiandisco · Post by **arabiandisco** » Sat Apr 21, 2007 5:34 pm

Pompeyfan wrote:how can toc's not get along with each other.... shorley the DfT need to get involved her and tell MML to hand one over? shorley this would be the best bet? no new stock to familierise with etc.

The DfT could possibly get involved if it concerned a "franchised" operator, but as Hull Trains is an open access outfit, the DfT have very limited jurisdiction.

All ECML (and WCML) 125mph services are timed at 110 mph, with 125 being allowed to make up time. The WCML 110 mph paths are timed at 100 mph, and so on and so forth. (And don't let's get in a lather about that, they do it everywhere - if it's running to time, a eurostar only needs to do 280 km/h to maintain the schedule).

Pompeyfan · Post by **Pompeyfan** » Sat Apr 21, 2007 5:37 pm

ok thanks....

OT: whats better at acclelerating... a 10 car 442 or a hst 2+8