Another LC collision

Elojikal · Post by **Elojikal** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 10:01 am

It is a good point. The only design flaw in AHBs are motorists so perhaps fuel duty should be increased to pay for the replacement of AHBs with bridges.

JSReeves86 · Post by **JSReeves86** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 10:04 am

may i add ALL crossings ARE safe if used correctly, even AOCLs which are used on the Romney are only dangerous because of the mindless idiots on the roads. The Romney is investing huge sums of money into ABCLs to reduce the risk on the railways staff and traveling public from those who are oblivious to the red lights.

JR

LNERandBR · Post by **LNERandBR** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 3:26 pm

Maby it's the fact that the red lights are flashing makes drivers beleave that their not as important as say a traffic light. In much the same way that a flashing amber at a pedestian crossing means procede with care maby some drivers beleave that the flashing red lights at level corssings mean the same.

arabiandisco · Post by **arabiandisco** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 3:31 pm

In fact, the law states that a flashing red is not to be passed under any circumstances, including by emergency vehicles under blue lights etc, which can "jump" a solid red light if they follow procedures.

Makes sense really, as there wouldn't be a lot of point to an ambulance (for example) rushing over a crossing only to get wrapped round the front of a train.

spartacus · Post by **spartacus** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 3:50 pm

jbilton wrote: I was told the High St was blocked, I will admit I didn't need to go to the scene.Certainly traffic diversions were in operation for 5 hours.Cheers
Jon

Did it manage to block both crossings? I was surprised when you said it had blocked any of them considering it was going into terrace sidings. At least Canwick Road is a bridge now, and there is another flyover at the other end. I'm sure if a lorry had jack knifed in the centre of Lincoln mid morning there would have been people requiring hospital treatment.

jbilton · Post by **jbilton** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 7:01 pm

Hi
As I said it was mainly pedestrian access, bus access etc... both bridges that can take disabled vehicles are along way away.
Although at peak time Lincoln needs all its roads crossings to cope.
I think you'll find most roads were there before the railways, thats why they needed an Act of Parliament to cross the road.
Whether its the road drivers fault or not AHBs are no longer safe, that is the clear message.
Now if the railways wish to continue to cross the road they will have to come up with the solution.
Cheers
Jon

mattvince · Post by **mattvince** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 10:23 pm

The flashing lights are exactly the same design as those used outside many fire stations. Would the average driver continue past one outside a fire station - knowing full well that the emerging fire engine will not and cannot stop?

Most railways were built before mechanised road transport became predominant - when the horse-drawn cart/carriage was the only vehicle on the road. Should British Waterways pay to replace a road swing-bridge with a structure elevated above shipping? In the case of the £100m Sheppey Bridge, the project was funded by the Highways Agency. By contrast, the £17m Owen Street relief road (that to replace the level crossing at Tipton) is being jointly funded by Central Government, Centro (West Midlands PTE) and Network Rail. My view is that the main beneficiary should contribute the most amount. In most cases, this is journey time/congestion saved by motorists, and their user-benefit should be expressed through the taxation they pay to use the road. With national road-user pricing, of course, such user benefit could be directly charged from those motorists using that new/improved bit of road. Taking the view that the non-motorist user of a road crossing should pay is a bit absurd - should we make Pelican crossings coin-operated?

LNERandBR · Post by **LNERandBR** » Tue Mar 06, 2007 2:41 pm

spartacus wrote:
jbilton wrote: I was told the High St was blocked, I will admit I didn't need to go to the scene.Certainly traffic diversions were in operation for 5 hours.Cheers
Jon
Did it manage to block both crossings? I was surprised when you said it had blocked any of them considering it was going into terrace sidings.

It didn't block any crossings.

The loco derailed on pointwork when reversing though the station. The front of the loco just cleared the crossing but not it's protecting signal. The loco was shut down and the crossing lights overriddern.

I know it didn't shut the corssings as I saw it stuck just clear of the LC.

buffy500 · Post by **buffy500** » Tue Mar 06, 2007 3:26 pm

jbilton wrote: Whether its the road drivers fault or not AHBs are no longer safe, that is the clear message.

Why is it unsafe ?

Theres a million things which fall into "unsafe if used incorrectly" basket.
Surely if there is a set of instructions which if followed make it safe to use, and its only people not following the usage instructions who are causing the problems then its not actually unsafe.
Until the railway are running into cars that are using the crossing entirely correctly (and lets be honest, its not hard is it ? Its as simple as "Red light / barriers means stop, and don't block the crossing") I dont see that theres anything 'unsafe' about it.

Elojikal · Post by **Elojikal** » Tue Mar 06, 2007 4:01 pm

jbilton wrote:Whether its the road drivers fault or not AHBs are no longer safe, that is the clear message.

If AHBs are not safe now then they were never safe to begin with. And if AHBs are not considered safe then traffic lights on public roads cannot be considered safe. A pedestrian crossing is not safe. I've almost been run over on several occasions by speeding cars or cyclists ignoring the red lights. Despite the fact I've crossed over without incident hundreds of thousands of times in my life it seems they are fundamentally unsafe?

A few times I've seen impatient people jump over the barriers of the fully automatic crossing outside the station near where I live, does that mean fully automatic crossings are unsafe?

Your arguments are so full of contradictions and never seem to be objecitve, changing according to whether infrastructure is under the control of a public body or a commercial entity.

LNERandBR · Post by **LNERandBR** » Tue Mar 06, 2007 4:53 pm

Elojikal wrote: A few times I've seen impatient people jump over the barriers of the fully automatic crossing outside the station near where I live, does that mean fully automatic crossings are unsafe?

I've seen people jumping over the barriers at Lincoln High Street LC.

Two 153's were having problems getting underway and stopped right next to the crossing. The signalman soon started shouting at these stupid inderviduals but they took no notice until the driver blew his horn.