Why First Great Western consistently fail to deliver

AlistairW · Post by **AlistairW** » Sun Jan 14, 2007 2:20 pm

BR7MT wrote: It sounds to me that First Group's policy of doing its own maintenance is biting them on the behind...

Quite possibly, but it could well pay off in the long run. Don't most TOC's use In-House maintenance already?

BR7MT · Post by **BR7MT** » Sun Jan 14, 2007 2:37 pm

Depends on the level of maintenance being carried out.

Southern, for instance, are capable of carrying out C4 overhauls at Selhurst depot as they have the relevant capability there are trust (!) their own maintenance staff to do the job. Heavy stuff like C6 overhaul's and full refurbishment schemes tend to get contracted out to the likes of Alstom, Bombardier, Wabtec, Hunslet Barclay etc.

It could well be that in the long-term First Group will save money through this approach, but in order to get the savings they at least need to run the trains during the changeover period!

Regards,

Dan

salopiangrowler · Post by **salopiangrowler** » Sun Jan 14, 2007 3:54 pm

well i been logged into tube track most of the day and apart from the odd on or too that most people gan forgive 95% of the service's seem to running to time at FGW's Main Hub's

bringstybeast · Post by **bringstybeast** » Sun Jan 14, 2007 4:03 pm

salopiangrowler wrote:well i been logged into tube track most of the day and apart from the odd on or too that most people gan forgive 95% of the service's seem to running to time at FGW's Main Hub's

And all of the delays today are on our local line.

At least two trains have been cancelled on the Oxford-Worcester-Hereford line (my local one) today, and tube track is showing another as almost an hour late. Excuses used today on Worcester trains: Staff shortages, Staff problems, Operating problems, Traincrew displacement, Train fault, Mechanical problem.

Sadly it is quite typical on this line.

On another note as to the service from first Great Western, I receive text messages twice daily (on week days) alerting me to problems on the network. From them, I have established that the 0710 Bristol-Paddington train has now run at least three times since the timetable change in December, with it having been cancelled every day before Christmas.

mattvince · Post by **mattvince** » Sun Jan 14, 2007 5:39 pm

Dan - but surely with the level of extra work involved in creating a depot, would it not be the case that extra time should have been allowed - for instance by continuing the Arriva contract to the May timetable change, and phasing over to St Phillips Marsh progressively?

That FirstGroup did not understand the nature of Wessex Trains' market when bidding is probably part of the problem - who would have thought that the Exmouth line was the second most profitable route in Wessex's network? What of the effect of losing a lot of long-built up custom - that will take a long time to recover, which will hit FGW's revenue, and could make the franchise financially impossible. The problems aren't limited to the former Wessex side, as FGW have managed to upset some of their Thames Valley clientèle with the December TT.

BR7MT · Post by **BR7MT** » Sun Jan 14, 2007 5:46 pm

mattvince wrote:Dan - but surely with the level of extra work involved in creating a depot, would it not be the case that extra time should have been allowed - for instance by continuing the Arriva contract to the May timetable change, and phasing over to St Phillips Marsh progressively?

That is what I meant by keep running the trains - phased changeover of maintenance. First Great Western obviously forgot the basic's of Sod's Law...

If we cut it fine with the changeover of maintenance from Arriva to us, then Sod's Law dictates that our St. Phillips Marsh depot will not be ready!

Regards,

Dan

salopiangrowler · Post by **salopiangrowler** » Sun Jan 14, 2007 6:08 pm

am i missing something here Arriva never had anything to do with bristol they made that clear by tell Wessex to run the Cardiff - Bristol service.

Arriva only have Canton, Chester, Llandudno Junction and Holyhead as Depots, Servicing point's.

St Philips Marsh was Wessex's depot anyway and the HST depot next to it was always great western.

When arriva did run to bristol they maintained at Bardon hill. But then arriva did do it long and certainly didnt do it at the FGW/Wessex farce. They'd long gone by then.

Arriva pride themselves on Wales and Wales only the only reason the Birmingham - Aberystwyth and Manchester - Holyheads are running is because the Welsh assemble pay for them. Otherwise ATW would be a welsh only TOC with shrewsbury the hub being a border town and the only link from Cardiff-Holyhead.

mattvince · Post by **mattvince** » Sun Jan 14, 2007 6:54 pm

All of Wessex's units were allocated to Cardiff Canton, and maintained there under contract - partly a hangover from 'Wales & West' days. Wessex did have a light maintenance facility at Exeter, but not one able to do anything particularly major. St Phillips Marsh was always FGW and only FGW, none of the Wessex units were ever allocated there. Which is why there is a problem now, as St Phillips Marsh was not ready to take a whole load of knackered DMUs from Canton.

A better TOC would have started from scratch with a new depot out in 'the sticks', attempting to create a clone of Salisbury. I'd suggest Westbury - good from a railway perspective, and with a ready skills base.

salopiangrowler · Post by **salopiangrowler** » Sun Jan 14, 2007 7:02 pm

wondered why a few Wessex liveried 158's have been making appearances on the cardiff-manchester diagram's.

Interesting reading there matt, there have been units stabled there i assume when the units not in use that day they out it in Philips marsh i have seen units at bardon hill aswell.

alisterbetts · Post by **alisterbetts** » Mon Jan 15, 2007 8:23 am

Isn't Bardon Hill in Leicestershire? That could be the problem

On a serious note, it just appears that FGW had no idea as to the condition of the plastic they were inheriting, and thought they could just switch the maintenance from Canton to SPM. They appear to have had no idea that the units would just collapse en masse, sadly any regular traveller on the route could have described the multitude of faults the units were prone to... lost count how many times I've travelled in a (nice quiet) vehicle with no power, or the a/c is broken, or a door doesn't work

It reminds me of the last days of the mechanicals on the Weymouth line and the Westbury watering can....

alisterbetts · Post by **alisterbetts** » Tue Jan 16, 2007 2:54 pm

Just got off the train - 'Exmoor Explorer', 158855 I think, have to post as to the shocking internal condition. The last time I travelled in such a battered vehicle must have been a mk1 or a mechanical in the late 80s.... truly shocked, ripped seats, tables missing, internally and externally filthy, engines knackered

enotayokel · Post by **enotayokel** » Tue Jan 16, 2007 4:20 pm

That one is ex-Central and has Perkins engines (still no excuse for not at least tidying it up)

BTW I hear that the neon 150 is having some work done to the interior - so might not be out and about for a while

salopiangrowler · Post by **salopiangrowler** » Tue Jan 16, 2007 7:11 pm

Ex central Ex arriva the trashy states probably done by the Chav's that live in Telford and the Toff's that like to ripp things apart, those namely that go to Aberystwyth universaty for a few thousand quid on a board and too posh to know any good.

Us Shrewsbury Salopians however like a good clean train. One of the reason's we did a swap with FGW.

allypally · Post by **allypally** » Tue Jan 16, 2007 7:33 pm

having just been on 170632 with the engine in the rear carriage going bang at Shifnal, I can safely say it's not a nice clean train!