"It's all a matter of taste...."

[lateagain]

Often a polite way of avoiding an argument or causing offence when talking about design. Design has played a huge part in our lives whether we notice it or not.

Many years ago I went to Art School and there, along with a fairly anarchic and revolutionary (well we liked to think so ) bunch of my contemporaries we learnt that there are some basic rules to design. These are laid down by general perception. General perception? A bit like “Common Sense”. Most people will agree that…..etc.etc. For example most people will agree that certain colour combinations work, some are soft, some are hard and some just don’t work at all.

What’s this got to do with Railways? Well there’s been a great deal of enthusiasm (rightly so) amongst MSTS modellers to reskin old BR and immediate post privatisation stock into the liveries of the latest operating companies. As I grew to love the corporate BR Blue and indeed enjoyed most of the early BR attempts at Liveries, with the possible exception of blue locomotives (didn’t work for me) I was appalled at some of the ghastly initial privatisation liveries Network Southeast being particularly unimaginative and looking plain stupid (IMO) on locomotives, Connex looked smart, but drove customers to a rage with their standards of service , managing to rejuvenate old slam door stock with a light bright livery. With the new franchises some really excellent designs emerged and just for a bit of fun I wondered if you’d like to join in by filling out our collective mutual admiration/disgust league table.

Top of my league for using good colours (most corporate identities hang on a selection of colours) in a smart variety of liveries would be my local South West Trains.

Bottom of my league for looking like they got a job lot on colours that no one else would buy and handing them over to a colour blind stylist would be ONE. The Grey looks like primer for goodness sake!!!

Modern stuff is not really my thing so I for one would appreciate links to images to support your arguments/suggestions.

There's some really good ones out there but also some real Dogs!!

Geoff

PS no slanging matches here please. just say why you think A works or B doesn't Maybe we can organise a poll if there's enough interest?

[BR7MT]

I do like all the SWT liveries, and I also think GNER's livery, although simple, is very fetching.

I quite liked the NSE red, white and blue actually; looks better when the paint hasn't faded over 8 years! I also don't particularly like the ONE livery - too many colours, the same could be said for the new First Group 'neon' livery, although I am still undecided about it.

Before Barry the nude hamster chimes in ( ) I have a particular liking for GER blue with red lining. Always looked very smart. I also like LNER Garter blue and BR blue with the black and white lining.

Regards,

Dan

[arabiandisco]

I'm not going to dissent against the SWT love-in (not as regards their paint jobs, anyhow!). I personally think that 'one' livery is rather smart - it's grown on me as I hated it at first. Another smart one is London Underground (though not when hidden behind graffiti).

Connex (as seen on mk1 trains, anyhow) is a difficult one, as their service was so dreadful, and they were incapable of keeping it clean.

I have a soft spot for NSE, as that was the prevailing livery in my area as I became aware of such things, and I quite like all the 'sector' liveries, though again that was probably more down to my age/ the nostalgia factor.

Going back before that, I am a big fan of a nice green diesel (small yellow ends) with a train of maroon coaches, particularly if the loco is slightly mucky, but the coaches are shiny. The whole aesthetic is nice there. Also works well with southern region green carriages, and a maroon warship (though only on green carriages, the brown/ magnolia carriages don't work for me)

I really don't like any of Last Groups efforts, the FGE Grey barbie being a particularly low point in their sorry tale. Arriva turquoise is nasty, and Northern's lilac/pink/purple is only marginally better than their red variant as seen on 321/9s. I also can't get interested in apple green.

[NiallGray]

Blue and Grey was the livery I loved, and NSE looked good on EMUs & 73s -- but those 2 33s they painted looked awful!

I loved the 86s and 87s in Virgin colours, but Porterbrook & GBRF? Yuk! Freightliner Green is a favourite for 86s, but not the RES livery.

Of companies, I like Southern green especially when they had the slam door stock and the 375/377s look great in it. SWT is ok, but I agree One has to be amongst the worst.

Connex and GNER get an honourable mention as nice liveries. However, give me back the old blue and grey anyday!

[spartacus]

I still can't get used to the new MML livery, something's just not 'right' about it in my opinion.

The original privatisation Transpennine Express livery applied by Northern Spirit always looked very smart, until First decided to cover half of it in vinyls.

[Elojikal]

I hated the BR blue and grey "intercity"* livery. Utterly detested it. To me it summed up Britain and British Rail. Grey skies, civil servants and a dull and bureaucratic company. Dull, dull, dull, dull, boring, bland and dull. Its the sort of livery only people who stand at the end of the platform 12 at Clapham Junction could love!

NSE was OK. It wasn't anything exceptional but it did have clean lines and distinctive colours. It looked really good in the final incarnation on the Class 319s where white started to prevail over grey. Having said that it wasn't as effective on the Networkers so maybe a lot of the appeal of a livery is the way it works with the rolling stock it covers.

I also find the SWT liveries quite pleasing.

The Connex Ghost (and subsequent South Eastern evolution) livery never worked for me when it came to the slam doors (or the 319s for that.) For some reason it looked plain and just didn't suit them in my mind. However it looks really smart on the Networkers and Electrostars where again the clean lines look sophisticated and smart.

Southern's green livery was very nice on the slammers. Really brought definition to them that had been lacking since the last days of Southern Region influence in BR.

Then there's LSE's Jaffa Cake livery which looked really smart on the CEPs and looked good on the CIGs too.

The Intercity "swallow" livery was one of the smartest and really got it right in the image it was trying to present of a train service that is there to do business and transcends regional (and franchise...uh...ional) concerns. It's a great shame that its been lost as for my money no other livery since has really done as much to explain what the purpose of the company is in terms of simply colours and iconography.

Last but not least, do we forget the LBSCRs classic (and timeless!) livery?

[spartacus]

Didn't that come about because the CME was colourblind?

[MuzTrem]

I am sure many of you will already know that I love LNER apple green and hate BR brunswick green! But I think apple green looked even better in GNR days when it was edged in darker green - similarly, two-tone green looked better than plain green on diesels. The rich green of the GNoSR was also very attractive.
However, I also like Garter Blue and early BR blue. Blue and grey coaches worked quite well too, because they were colourful without being too brash, but I think rail blue didn't work well with full yellow ends when applied to locos. The GER scheme worked well but personally I prefer lighter shades of blue. Black tends to be too dull, except when lined out in red and white and kept spotlessly clean, when it does look quite good.
Being a steam fan I think that the best privatisation schemes are the more restrained ones - ie, not Virgin silver or First "nightclub"! The later style of NSE was good, although I don't think the original style where the stripes went up to the cab windows really worked. I like the blue-and-white scheme of my local Chiltern Railways - simple, but effective. Despite my earlier comment about GER blue, I actually quite like the GNER scheme, because it is bold without being brash. Finally, I also like London Underground's red/white/blue scheme, although it is not as stylish as the old red livery.

[alexnick]

Out of the privatisation liveries, I think the SWT livery looks good on the Desiros, but the essential rip-off of NSE applied to the Slam-door stock wasn't good (except on 455s). GNER looks very smart. I do quite like Virgin's liveries - they suit the modern units, though I'm not so sure on their earlier liveries. I like South Central Green, but the yellow/white ones looked awful. The present First liveries are horrid, but I think that the old FGW Green/white was quite smart. However, the winners at the moment would be Strathclyde with the maroon/beige units.

Out of BR days, I think the best liveries where at the end: NSE, and IC Swallow. I also quite liked some of the Railfreight grey combinations. The Blue and Blue/Grey liveries looked purposeful, but weren't all that exciting. Maroon and dark green look OK, but only really for the steam-era. Of course, GWR Brunswick green with Chocolate & Cream coaches is the best thing to have hit the railways, but that's my opinion!

Actually, other countries tend to have better liveries than us. These days, DB Verkehrsrot is great on modern stock - and their earlier liveries are also generally successful (even if you include the DR ones too), and I think SBB has had good liveries throughout it's existance. I also think that SJ had some good liveries in the middle of the 20th century - brown coaches, to be hauled by black steam or brown electric locomotives (weathers well!). Also, the USA has had some great ones in the past, but they've sadly all disappeared.

...OK, rant over...

Nick

[staticxfreak]

I still can't get used to the new MML livery, something's just not 'right' about it in my opinion.

I think if they'd done the entire train-set like the power cars (the blue with grey stripes) it would have looked better imo.

I prefer:



To:

[stuartpalmer]

As a rule of thumb, I reckon that up to three colours "works", any more doesn't. "One" easily proves the "too many colours" rule and GNER is a prime example of dignified restraint. Of course there are exceptions to every rule: the Silverlink purple, green and yellow is a great example of three colours not working, while SWT's four colour palette just about works for me.

Living in Scotland, I particularly hated the (pre First takeover) Scotrail livery of green, brown and purple on a white background. The colours were pretentiously supposed to represent aspects of Scotland (hills, whisky and heather or something like that). All together it looked a mess, but I would often think that taking any two of the aforementioned colours, still on a white ground, would actually have looked very smart.

[ajax103]

I like the livery's from BR day's such as Intercity Swallow, NSE, the Blue and Grey etc, the only modern one I can't stand is the One livery, utter c***, the one which I think is the best at the moment would have to be GNER at the moment.

[RogerM]

Intercity and its variants were OK
Trainload sectors were awesome
RES - a particular favourite
Engineers - another favourite

Post P:
GNER
MML
EWS
DRS
Freightliner, and many others

[allypally]

I quite like Central's 'Im on Acid' livery. Compared to the very nice, but very dirtyable, old Regional Railways Express liveries with grey and white in, it looks presentable up until you look reaaaally closely and see the score marks

[bringstybeast]

I believe that I am in a minority for liking First Great Western's fag packet livery.