Bye Bye GNER

[AlistairW]

I think the situation with SET and the one with GNER are completely different, SET were just a mess where as GNER has had far too much financial pressure. Which will no doubt be a cause for expensive tickets, and the huge jump in car park prices a few months ago. I think it was a close to 100% increase at some stations. GNER will be lucky to get it again, I got the impression last time that they only got it because they offered the largest premiums, although Virgins bid wasn't too far behind. Of course this time the DfT can't expect operators to offer such large premiums which could give to some more interesting and imaginative bids as opposed to how they plan to cut costs.

I agree strongly with thenudehamster, franchises should be awarded on a Cost-Benefit basis. My experience of VXC is rather limited to Derby – Sheffield runs or Sheffield – Doncaster, as I usually go the long way round to avoid them when I can. But the trains tend to be on time, although they tend to be out of the peak times. GNER trains are nice, although they do seem to struggle with punctuality; I’ve found it’s normally only a matter of minutes though.

Re: Voyagers

The units are good for short hops and frequent stops thanks to powerful acceleration making them ideal for some of the XC routes. But running one non-stop from Kings X to York and then on up to Inverness isn't what they were designed for. But that’s a whole different debate.

[charlierc]

If First won franchise they combine Hull Trains and East Coast into one operation just like Virgin combined West Coast and CrossCountry into one operation called Virgin Trains.

Oh, okay.

Anyway, I think that the DSB/EWS bid was last when GNER was re-franchised in 2005 so I wouldn't expect them to bid. It is likely a monopoly will be the result and that Virgin/FirstGroup will be in charge.

The world is never kind to established rail operators. Just tell FirstGroup (regarding FGE) and I believe GNER will be consigned to the big book of railway operations history, which will be a big loss but because of what the DfT are like a bit too predictable. But should we start a BR plc? Perhaps but give or take a few years and this is what we may have.

[nwallace]

Um, Its not jsut GNER thats gone titsup it is Sea Container group, so thats Hoverspeed and Seacat as well.

Considering the size of the group it wouldn't be just GNER that has forced them into Chapter 11.

If they were a british company they woudl be in Administration or Liquidation.

Its highly possible that GNER may have to cease operations entirley before retenderisation.

First Group winning the East coast franchise could result in a CC report on the services where GNER and First "Competed" in Scotland (and other areas)
And Virgin winning may result in a CC report on Virgins monopoly on Scotland -> London Services.

[salopiangrowler]

Um, Its not jsut GNER thats gone titsup it is Sea Container group, so thats Hoverspeed and Seacat as well.

And a US shortline Railroad and a Freight company in Peru (50008's future home, had it been a successful story)

So its pretty world wide. isnt it 50% of The container traffic in the UK aswell.

[charlierc]

Possibly, every other freightliner seems to have 'em.

With regrads to the GNER future, it will only be exceptional circumstances should they win it and would place companies in violation of competiton commission rules.

[AlistairW]

All of this talk about the competition commission, 15 years ago competition to rail was the motorways and airlines, now it has those to contend with as well as itself.

[charlierc]

Must be why a BR plc should be a future option.

[mattvince]

But why should the railway be a monolith? The trouble with monoliths trying to standardise the working practices across the nation is that you can and will end up with averagely-bad - at least privatisation has enabled those companies who are good to shine, and those who are bad to be shown up for it. For as long as you have divisions, there will be competition - be it regions, sectors, or TOCs.

As for the Competition Commission, the only time they come in is where a transport group has a monopoly of the market for passenger transport - First and Stagecoach were referred to the CC over Great Western because of their sizeable bus interests in the region. Competition in franchising is done at the bidding stage, although as John Hibbs has noted, Franchising is competition for the market, Open Access is competition in the market - the two aren't really able to coexist in the same market sensibly. Is competition (between franchises or in a wholly-open market) a bad thing? Since 'the airlines' do not form a single monopoly operator, there is competition between airlines. Ditto the buses where competing operators actually bother to compete on a route.

For franchising in general, I have a sneaking suspicion that DfT is working on the basis of Labour losing the next General Election, thus it is signing up to ridiculous franchises in the hope they all go belly-up after May 2009, so the problem falls on the desk of David Cameron's government. That might be an opportunity - a 2011-ish Railways Act could finally bring about the vertically-integrated 'Railway Companies' (note plural) many in the industry have been clamouring for.

[BR7MT]

Thats an interesting idea Matt, which would also perhaps point towards politicisation (spelling?) of the Civil Service. As the quaint old saying goes: "Its just not cricket old boy!"

Regards,

Dan

[arabiandisco]

Thats an interesting idea Matt, which would also perhaps point towards politicisation (spelling?) of the Civil Service. As the quaint old saying goes: "Its just not cricket old boy!"

Regards,

Dan

Who said the civil service were making decisions "unaided". I'm sure the civil servants at the Department against Transport are acting on instructions from the top level, and if those instructions are to accept bids where returns to the treasury are priorities #1, #2, #3, #4, #5.... #300, #301... (you get the idea), then that's just what they'll be bound to do. That's not politicisation, that's doing as they're told.

[220389]

Well i hope that First Group get's it, and not Virgin, i had the fun off going on a voyager last week, and i hated it, far to noisey and not that comfatable give me a HST any day

[model321]

You know what, maybe if the railways were owned by British Rail again, there wouldnt be all of this fiasco about whos going to own the new east coast franchise as all of the trains would be owned by just one company, which would be BR again if ever the government has second thoughts on how britains railways are run, which these days is just for profit.

Matt C

[Anonymizeruk]

I think Virgin could do a decent job on the ECML, provided they keep the existing stock. On the rare occasions I have travelled First Class with Virgin, it has been excellent.

On the other hand, I hope First don't even get a sniff. If they do get the ECML, we can expect service cuts, price hikes and no more buffets! (I would assume that the WiFi prices would rocket as well)

It's such a shame that GNER, widley regarded (from a passenger service point of view) as the example all TOCs should aspire to, has gone down the pan because they can't line enough pockets.

So much for franchising being designed to improve the passenger experience.

Cheers

Gaz

[trainlover123]

I agree with Gary here, this is certainly NOT the way to try and improve customer experience if they find out suddenly the expensive season ticket that you have purchased isn't going to be upheld by Operator 'y'.

If I were to give an example, if you lived in York and needed to get to London and use the tube every day with First class seats for 12 months, expect to be shafted for over £15000. This could be a large blow for anyone or any business.

Instead of lining the pockets of the greedy government, why can't the DfT try to work out a deal where the railways are able to have a little cash to themselves instead of having to invest in improving the operating environment, removing the little money they may have, it certainly isn't the right way to attract people back to the railway, higher premiums to GNER meant higher ticket prices which mean people are less likely to travel on them because the car may be cheaper if you are only going say London - Grantham. It's despicable that the Government will not let Rover die but let the best rail operator in the UK shrivel and die.

Put your money where your mouth is New Labour, improve the railways and stop big companies the the SC Group going pop!

[metromuppet]

In the 8 months its been private again and GoVia have been running the SE franchise, they've ballsed it up no end!

Look at what Govia has done with Southern. They have turned it around from the mess Connex left. They have introduced new rolling stock, improved reliability, introduced new routes, refurbishing new stock, and still have plans for the future.

Their plan for SET is the same. It will take a while to sort the mess out, once that has been done, they will do the same as they did with Southern. A few of the bigger managers have gone over to SET from Southern to help achieve this.

Govia are one of the last remaining bidders for the west midlands franchise, and if they got that, they would not get the GNER franchise; however, if they did not win the west midlands, i am sure they would put a big bid in for the GNER franchise.