Stagecoach retains SWT

arabiandisco · Post by **arabiandisco** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 7:02 pm

After reading in Mr Ford's column about how they 458 PIS issue was solved, I'm not surprised by that. Bigger LEDs, why didn't they think of that sooner?

Any idea how 10 car suburbans are going to be created? re-forming 455s? Raiding Selhurst for some 456s? I suppose that with the 458s being retained, there will be enough 455s to do some re-forming, but the traction package will need a bit more "go" inserting, or maybe even replacing (since it all started out life under 4SUB units, IIRC). Perhaps even a few new 458 vehicles... It'll be interesting to see how they come up with that one.

BR7MT · Post by **BR7MT** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 7:50 pm

10 car suburban trains? Ignoring reforming of the 455's or borrowing 456's from Southern, two main solutions present themselves.

1. New build 5-car Desiro's.
2. New build 5-car 376's.

My money is on the Desiro's as SWT seem very happy with them, even if the permanent way tells a different story

Regards,

Dan

andrewtoplis · Post by **andrewtoplis** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 7:52 pm

Christopher125 wrote: Not true, IoWSR ballast hoppers and their 03 have already been used on Island Line, and if neccesary the two lines could be linked up (most if not all pw equipment has gone from Ryde to Havenstreet when sold). Seeing as busses could not use the trackbed, far too narrow in places and would require a horrific amount of changes, and the main road is too busy they would have to just close the line = political suicide. It really is a stalemate, possibly till it gets shut down for safety.

Chris

Save us from the Infernal Guided Busway!!

Dont forget that new trains are due on our Victoria Line from 2009, so the old stock will become redundant and could be used elsewhere with some new seats and fresh paint etc, would be nice if they could go as part of a package to upgrade Islandline. Nothing is impossible, it just needs money to be found. Isnt the EU there for things like this?

arabiandisco · Post by **arabiandisco** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 8:02 pm

BR7MT wrote:10 car suburban trains? Ignoring reforming of the 455's or borrowing 456's from Southern, two main solutions present themselves.

1. New build 5-car Desiro's.
2. New build 5-car 376's.

My money is on the Desiro's as SWT seem very happy with them, even if the permanent way tells a different story

Regards,

Dan

I would agree that some kind of new build seems the obvious way, but I ruled that out simply because the franchise announcement would have trumpeted "NEW TRAINS!!!!!" if that was the plan.

and it didn't.

The likely retention of the 458s would make new stock even less likely.

mattvince · Post by **mattvince** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 8:26 pm

I'd put money on 10-car Dessies. Quite possibly it will involve inserting a fifth car into a handful of the existing 450s at the most suitable maintenance interval, then operating as a specific sub-fleet.

I would hope for a couple of 67TS for the Island Line, stripped of the ATO kit. Anything else is going to be considered 'too expensive'. Perhaps DfT should have looked at making it the London Borough of Vectis?

alexnick · Post by **alexnick** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 8:34 pm

Sounds more like it - SWT seem to love their Desiros. My alternative solution would be some 2-car Desiros - like the 456s, only better! I don't know if there's much mileage in this, but it's a possiblilty, I guess.

Nick

yj03ppv · Post by **yj03ppv** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 8:48 pm

10-coaches is all very well for the Reading line, but how do they propose platform extensions at Reading General. 8 is at the moment a tight fit...

Maybe we will see the 450/2 idea finally come to fruition...

John

BR7MT · Post by **BR7MT** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 9:14 pm

The franchise is for 10 years.

The 455's will be (in theory) expiring just before the franchise is up.

Ergo, new build will be required at some point. Especially as the 455 bodyshell is prone to corrosion at solebar level and the traction kit will be life expired by then anyway.

Regards,

Dan

MrKeelar · Post by **MrKeelar** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 9:14 pm

alexnick wrote:Sounds more like it - SWT seem to love their Desiros. My alternative solution would be some 2-car Desiros - like the 456s, only better! I don't know if there's much mileage in this, but it's a possiblilty, I guess.

Nick

With any luck, and assuming the money is there for the platform extensions, they'll use their brains and have additional trailers made for the 458s. The traciton package is more that an able to stand another unpowered trailer in each rake; but no more flaming Desiros please! I have no desire to drive further additions to a fleet of trains that don't stop when you ask them to.

AlistairW · Post by **AlistairW** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 9:28 pm

Either way, if they want a small number of desiros they'd better order soon before the production line completely closes.

yj03ppv · Post by **yj03ppv** » Tue Sep 26, 2006 6:11 am

I expect the 458 production line has closed, and Alstom have withdrawn from the UK. Would these new cars fail a lot and keep having to go back to Alstom HQ for mending?

If they said 450/2s then that would be fine. Or maybe they could convert 450101 - 450130 into 450201 - 450230? Addition of an extra TSO(L).

"I have no desire to drive further additions to a fleet of trains that don't stop when you ask them to."

They seem fairly adept at stopping, although I'm not a driver so I don't really know, but down here often the platforms can only just get a 12 x 450 or 10 x 444 - even a hybrid 444 + 450 is a bit of a tight fit to get in so it probably takes some knack to stop them in the right place.

Maybe before SWT buy extra Desiros, they could upgrade the power so the current ones can do 100% throttle, I believe they are limited to 75%?

John

arabiandisco · Post by **arabiandisco** » Tue Sep 26, 2006 7:47 am

Turn up the power? You're having a laugh! I doubt that will ever happen. (Networkers are still running in Low Power mode.)

Perhaps these 5 car 458s (possibly the best solution suggested, if you ignore the fact that you can't build them here!) could be created using the soon to be redundant 460s. The 9th 390 vehicles were built away from washwood heath, though, so it ought to be possible to build another 30 458 trailers.

455 replacement will be required at some point, but I believe the 10 car suburbans are due before 2010. If the industry uses a bit of joined up thinking, then Southern's 455s will be replaced together with the SWT 455s.

I don't think anything will happen to Reading's platforms, at least until the area gets resignalled (due some time in the next 10 years, I think). The 10 cars will be restricted to the inner suburban routes, such as Windsor & Shepperton.

BR7MT · Post by **BR7MT** » Tue Sep 26, 2006 8:16 am

arabiandisco wrote:455 replacement will be required at some point, but I believe the 10 car suburbans are due before 2010. If the industry uses a bit of joined up thinking, then Southern's 455s will be replaced together with the SWT 455s.

Current thinking at Southern appears to be moving towards 376's as eventual replacements for the 455/8's.

Regards,

Dan

NiallGray · Post by **NiallGray** » Tue Sep 26, 2006 9:04 am

My problem with the Island line is on that every trip I've been (including two weeks ago), once you get out Ryde it's so bloody uncomfortable. You bounce around like mad and this is with the train probably doing no more than 40.

As for 10 cars on Windsor line, I wonder how Sunnymeads will cope with them...

Christopher125 · Post by **Christopher125** » Tue Sep 26, 2006 3:54 pm

Lol its got much worse recently, i agree its getting a 'bit much'. There's still a lot of shingle ballast which doesnt help!! Too any1 whose been on it recently have you noticed rowborough? Completely removed the embankment a few years ago and renewed it.... they're planning to do it again next year it seems

ouch