Class 395 Hitachi Javelin

[carlwestwood]

Ive just been reading about these. they are to run along the ctrl link for south eastern as i gather.

They will be able to run within 3rd rail electric and over head wires.
personally i think they look amazing.

wud be nice to see wot other people think.
Will they do the job???!!

carl westwood

[BR7MT]

Of course they will do the job, excellent units, Japanese quality, all hail Hitachi!!

Seriously, they are intended as Hitachi's foot in the door to the UK rolling stock market. If they get it wrong, then that is their chance pretty much screwed up. A lot of effort is being put in by the company to ensure that mistakes made on the Electrostars are not repeated!

Regards,

Dan

p.s. If they do prove to be a disaster, all my posts on here will make me look a right wally

[chuxn2005]

If you knew nothing about these trains you could be mistaken for thinking that they are sponsered by Hitachi

[alexnick]

Can anyone here say anything about Hitatchi's past reputation in train construction? I really cannot think of anything I know about them as train manufacturers.

Also, does anyone know why they were chosen to build the new CTRL stock? The decision seemed a little improbable to me - my cynical side said that some politician thought that odering Japanese trains would instantly give us a shinkansen-style railway operation. I don't know much about the quality of Japanese railway products, but they do have a good reputation (though I believe that the railways there have much more rigorous maintainance schemes than we do, which probably improves things enormously, as it does on the continent).

I hope they are good trains, especially seeing as so many other builders seem unreliable these days (though Siemens is pretty good).

Nick

[carlwestwood]

it says in Rail 545 that they will be capable of speed upto 140mph. and then the good acceleration tht they will have can also be used on reular routes, currently served by 375s, altho the speed will have to be limited.

29 of these units are being built by Hitachi for domestic services on high speed lines. Journey times between kent / the coast to London should be reduced by upto 40 minutes.

This is what is in Rail 545 anyways.

sounds promising

regards
carl westwood

[mattvince]

Hitachi have no real European experience, but in Japanese terms, they are one of the biggest, if not the biggest. Hitachi's products appear to be reliable, otherwise they wouldn't have survived in a competitive market (both in terms of suppliers and operators). There could well have been a 'Shinkansen' allure to them, equally there is the suspicion that the promise of Japanese trains is wholly linked to the promise of Japanese IOC votes.

Reliability is about designing, building and maintaining - unfortunately the ROSCOs didn't grasp the first two parts when ordering the stock. Siemens - reliability might be alright, but 50 tonne vehicles are ridiculous.

[BR7MT]

The reasons suggested for Hitachi being the chosen manufacturer is that they offered the trains at a substantially reduced cost. Roger Ford indicated that a '0' was missing from the final price compared to the Alstom and Siemens bids.

As for quality - I'll give you an example of how Japanese trains are made differently:

UK - Bodyshell created and the interior is fitted out inside the bodyshell

Japan - bodyshell and interior built separately at th same time. The tolerances are so accurate that the interior module can be slided into the bodyshell before the ends are welded on.

Now THAT is quality.

Regards,

Dan

[arabiandisco]

But will they stand up to British "maintainance" practises? ('Just oil the bolts so it looks like we too it off').

I'm all in favour of trying new manufacturers, but let's not get too excited by what they do in a different country where operating conditions and working practises are completely different. They will have to operate on the shiney new CTRL and the somewhat less shiney old routes around East Kent. I would suggest that would constitute something of a challenge...

[skipperdipper]

Another example of the south east splashing out on something fancy

Rob

[arabiandisco]

yes, you poor northerners are so persecuted...

[carlwestwood]

as are the midlanders who have central trains to deal with

[BR7MT]

Maintenance - it may be the chance to instill Japanese practice in the UK, Hitachi are responsible for maintaining the trains at Ashford in a purpose built depot.

Track - Hitachi do actually have experience of this sort of high speed / normal line operation in Japan. The basic challenge is to ensure the bogies do not shake themselves to bits, BUT ensure that the stiffness characteristics do not cause excessive amounts of Rolling Contact Fatigue to occur. Hopefully the collaboration with Network Rail will pay dividends and ensure that the bogie and suspension design is suitably optimized.

Only time will tell...

Regards,

Dan

[alexnick]

It sounds quite promising for Hitatchi products. However, I agree with the sentiments against Britsh operating conditions - though surely they are problematic for all types of rolling stock.

I don't think 50 tonnes is too much for a vehicle (just to comment) - it's really just a sign of how bad our trackwork is getting. Siemens tend to design vehicles for Germany, where track laying is excellent (it is in quite a few other European countries too, who also use Siemens products, for that matter), so axle loadings shouldn't be a problem. Our trackwork always looks like it's falling apart, and I'm constantly seeing wet spots and curves that have developed angles at joints on running lines. However, I believe Japanese construction prefers lighter stock, which is good news for the dilapidated trackwork in the UK.

Nick

[AlistairW]

Should be interesting to see if they can cope with the numerous safety checks that we have in place. There’s the myth than when a Japanese Railway Executive was asked why their trains aren't as well prepared for crashes as some European ones he replied
"Rather than protecting the passengers in the event of a crash we use our resources to prevent such an event from occuring."
Although obviously he replied in Japanese...

[Samd22]

"Rather than protecting the passengers in the event of a crash we use our resources to prevent such an event from occuring."
Although obviously he replied in Japanese...

Something like this:

よりもむしろ乗客を衝突の場合に保護して私達はそのようなでき事が起こることを防ぐのに私達の資源を使用する