Train cancellations- replacement busses or taxis?

[Whitemoor]

Hey folks

On me way back from New Street Birmingham to Whittlesea tonite on the 2027 to Cambridge after a day at Tamworth, got into Leicester all ok (10mins late but that were ok) and we were sat in the station for about 10/15mins and conductor puts out announcement that we are having problems with thee doors.

15mins more later he puts out announcement that the train is now canceled due to the un-fixable door problem, and we were promised a rail replacement coach to serve Melton, Oakham, Stamford, Peterborough, Whittlesea, March, Ely and Cambridge. Great we thought.

Goes out front of station like we were told, and about 30mins passes, people start raising suspicuin that the busses wont turn up, i was prepared to give it an hour before asking questions. An hour passes and i ask the MML staff who had finaly decided to pass on some info that no busses had been dispatched, and the station staff will order taxis for the remaining people. By this time, over half the ppl had already got taxis home or been picked up. me and a few follow travellers spent around 40-45 mins chatting merrirly to the station staff who were assisting us get these taxis back to our homes, and it was then i found out that Central hadent ordered any busses at all. Infact, they had not done anything at all, apart from sort the problem out and run the unit (158852) back ECS to cambridge. Everything were left to MML staff to sort out.

Now my question is, did Central plan to leave us there, or did they plan busses but no-one would co-operate, or did they just want to save as much money as possible by making us forge our own way home?????

Your views please

Rob
now very tired and probaly waffling a hell of a lot

[allypally]

Humph, I had 158852 earlier in the day (0921ish Codsall to Wolverhampton) and it was in fine fettle then. As for replacement buses, I've been doing my work experience at a coach firm these past two weeks, and it's incredibly difficult at this time of the year to get a coach with zero notice.

As a result, they probably were trying to get you a coach, but just couldn't find one. They weren't saving money anyway - if they can't get you home on another train same day, they have to provide alternative transport, either taxi, bus or coach.

[Samd22]

Personally I think if a train is cancelled a replacement limousine should be provided for every passenger

[madrid]

This going back to BR days. When traveling back to Lydney from London and the London train missed the last conection of the day at Gloucester, BR paid for the taxi. It should be the same case now.

[Samd22]

This going back to BR days. When traveling back to Lydney from London and the London train missed the last conection of the day at Gloucester, BR paid for the taxi. It should be the same case now.

Only problem is many train companies see passengers as money making pieces of s**t that they are lowering themselves to shovel around. Sorry if that's offensive but it's how they see things....and the government for that matter.

[chuxn2005]

Did you get a taxi all the way home, and they made you pay?

I would sue.

[madrid]

Especialy if its a lone female as this could be dangergous.

However was'nt their some goverment guildlines over this mater when the railways got privitised?

[mattvince]

Train Operating Companies DO pay the taxi fare - it's a legal requirement in the Conditions of Carriage.

[madrid]

Train Operating Companies DO pay the taxi fare - it's a legal requirement in the Conditions of Carriage.

Yes I thought this was the case.

[chuxn2005]

Big far from Leicester to Blood Whittlsea!

MAybe it will send central bust as they couldnt get the staff to have tiolet's and lift's open on a friday Afternoon/Evening.

[AlistairW]

That’s a disgraceful way to handle fare-paying passengers; sometimes the lack of information passed on to the passenger is terrible. Who knows where the line of communication in your case broke down, you get the impression someone got the call requesting a bus and was about to go home so just didn’t bother. What’s worse is the fact that the unit ran ECS to its destination, no doubt fully staffed. Surely in any other industry heads would roll and the public wouldn’t stand for it. If your film stopped at the cinema half way through and you had to swap screens and they just didn’t show the rest you wouldn’t stand for it. Or if your bus dropped you off half way home etc etc.

The cost of taxis must be phenomenal compared to operating a train, especially for longer trips, I feel as though some operators pack in all to easy and cancel the service. Since the 20.27 is the last train of the day it also makes you wonder, surely a unit will be required to work the first service off Cambridge. So, operationally if the train had failed, another ECS would have had to of run from Nottingham (the nearest CT depot) to Cambridge, why not put all the passengers on that and run the other unit back to Nottingham. If I were a passenger I’d of felt hard done by and would be writing up my letter of complaint in order to obtain my full refund.

[Whitemoor]

Did you get a taxi all the way home, and they made you pay?

I would sue.

nah, it were charged to CT, shoulda hi-lighted that....but it were late and i were very tired

[Keelar001]

That’s a disgraceful way to handle fare-paying passengers; sometimes the lack of information passed on to the passenger is terrible. Who knows where the line of communication in your case broke down, you get the impression someone got the call requesting a bus and was about to go home so just didn’t bother. What’s worse is the fact that the unit ran ECS to its destination, no doubt fully staffed. Surely in any other industry heads would roll and the public wouldn’t stand for it. If your film stopped at the cinema half way through and you had to swap screens and they just didn’t show the rest you wouldn’t stand for it. Or if your bus dropped you off half way home etc etc.

The cost of taxis must be phenomenal compared to operating a train, especially for longer trips, I feel as though some operators pack in all to easy and cancel the service. Since the 20.27 is the last train of the day it also makes you wonder, surely a unit will be required to work the first service off Cambridge. So, operationally if the train had failed, another ECS would have had to of run from Nottingham (the nearest CT depot) to Cambridge, why not put all the passengers on that and run the other unit back to Nottingham. If I were a passenger I’d of felt hard done by and would be writing up my letter of complaint in order to obtain my full refund.

I love your assumption that TOCs have train crew just lying about waiting to pick up this kind of emergency, and of course that there will be paths available after the last service... Given that you read and contribute to these forums I'll avoid pointing out the apparent ignorance of the above comments.

TOCs don't like leaving passengers stuck in the middle of nowhere; they are our bread and butter and we'd like to have jobs tomorrow. I'm a driver, by the way - and we don't like failing trains anymore than our passengers do. It means paper work and longer hours for us and our guard and can sometimes lead to conflict with obstinate persons who think that sitting on a train will somehow make us fix a problem that couldn't be solved before.

Just as a thought; if a unit has a door failure that can't be remedied, we can isolate the Traction Interlock to get the unit moving - given that isolating the interlock means that a driver could drive away with all the doors open, we are not permitted to run the train in service. So yes; doubtless the train did run back to depot "fully crewed" but at least no passengers fell to their deaths at 90mph with the crew none the wiser. Heads would only roll if we had passengers dropping out of our trains and no one knew until the next train hit the aftermath. As it is, the passengers in this case were all delivered to their destinations.

Yes - the cost of taxis is extremely high; but we take our duty of care seriously enough to willingly accept the burden to get our passengers home safely. Despite sometimes unhelpful staff and (more often) a convoluted chain-of-responsibility, the railway doesn't knowingly leave anyone stranded anywhere. And when it does happen, it isn't out of malice.

End of rant. I shall now retire to a darkened room, breath deeply from a paper bag and wait until the urge to strangle leaves me!!!

[AlistairW]

I love your assumption that TOCs have train crew just lying about waiting to pick up this kind of emergency, and of course that there will be paths available after the last service... Given that you read and contribute to these forums I'll avoid pointing out the apparent ignorance of the above comments.

TOCs don't like leaving passengers stuck in the middle of nowhere; they are our bread and butter and we'd like to have jobs tomorrow. I'm a driver, by the way - and we don't like failing trains anymore than our passengers do. It means paper work and longer hours for us and our guard and can sometimes lead to conflict with obstinate persons who think that sitting on a train will somehow make us fix a problem that couldn't be solved before.

Just as a thought; if a unit has a door failure that can't be remedied, we can isolate the Traction Interlock to get the unit moving - given that isolating the interlock means that a driver could drive away with all the doors open, we are not permitted to run the train in service. So yes; doubtless the train did run back to depot "fully crewed" but at least no passengers fell to their deaths at 90mph with the crew none the wiser. Heads would only roll if we had passengers dropping out of our trains and no one knew until the next train hit the aftermath. As it is, the passengers in this case were all delivered to their destinations.

Yes - the cost of taxis is extremely high; but we take our duty of care seriously enough to willingly accept the burden to get our passengers home safely. Despite sometimes unhelpful staff and (more often) a convoluted chain-of-responsibility, the railway doesn't knowingly leave anyone stranded anywhere. And when it does happen, it isn't out of malice.

End of rant. I shall now retire to a darkened room, breath deeply from a paper bag and wait until the urge to strangle leaves me!!!

I am aware TOCs don't have train crew and train sets sat around for such an emergency. Especially at that time of night, I know if I worked for a TOC I certainly wouldn't be jumping at the chance to work an extra 3 hours on top of what is already a long day.

I also understand that the situation is often out of the control of all the train crew and platform staff, there have been numerous occasions when I have seen staff go above and beyond their line of duty in situations which have nothing to do with them. Your anger is understandable as yet I appear as someone else who is jumping up and down in a rage demanding why a magical a new train has not appeared that will rush me to my destination in next to no time. I know there are various complications to running a railway, especially a privatised one.

But, what angers me, which is what I was trying to get across in my original post (possibly badly) is that incompetent management has yet again reared its ugly head and possibly put passengers off travelling again. I know there are many hard working railway men on this site who devote a long time to their jobs and the railway so I choose my words carefully and don't want to cause offence to anyone.

Although I do not know the details I'm pretty sure that by 21.30 there is a spare unit at Nottingham. I know there are laws on overtime and driving time but I believe with say a £50 bonus a driver could be found to run an ECS to Leicester where the train crew and passengers could be transferred. The same driver could then return the failed unit to Nottingham and the fresh unit can continue, albeit 1 hour late towards Cambridge. This in my mind makes sense as it gets the train set, train crew and passengers to their destination without too many added costs.

I am sorry if I caused your blood to boil as I am aware that you will all to often see staff that have no control over the situation be on the receiving end of Joe Public. Staff on the whole are hard working and under appreciated, but my point is that with a little initiative on the management end of the scale situations like this could be handled much better.

Rather than tracking me down may I suggest thing online boxing game as a anger release.

I in no way live anywhere near Derbyshire...

http://www.mofunzone.com/online_games/g ... ing.shtml#

[mattvince]

The trouble with that is that you need a traincrew who are willing to work over their allotted hours, Unions willing to accept working over allotted hours as an acceptable practice, and methods for recompensing that crew - including providing time off in lieu. Then it may well be that such an alteration creates meltdown in the 'link' structure, so that the crew are not allowed to work their normal diagram the next day, as they would not have had enough time off, so you'd need to shuffle all the diagrams around the link to cover the work - which only creates confusion for all concerned.

Then there comes the issue of that unit - how long has it been at Nottingham? Does it have enough fuel to work tomorrow's Cambridge starting diagram? (I cannot recall whether Cambridge has a fuelling point or not - if there is, are there depot staff on-duty to enable this to be done?) Crucially, are the Cambridge traincrew qualified to operate that replacement unit - I'm not sure if CBG crews sign 150s and 153s. And the Nottingham driver - does that individual sign the road to Leicester? Of course it's an assumption that the driver has enough space in the diagram from their previous duty to work the trains - continuous driving time rules apply. Last and not least - is the line open? If there's engineering (at Loughborough, for example) then Game Over. If open, is there a path available which can be VSTP'd?

Central Trains work units and traincrew pretty tight - lots of long diagrams, with not much scope for out-of-course working.