Is This "Fare"?..... Excuse the pun!

orange24 · Post by **orange24** » Fri Jun 16, 2006 3:36 pm

I have a zone 4-5 monthly adult travelcard at Â£55 per month. I was travelling from Bromley South (zone 5) at 23:19 on the Orpington train. I used my ticket to get through the barriers at Bromley South and borded the train. A South Eastern Trains Revenue Protection Officer came down the train and asked to see my ticket, i showed him, he said "thank you sir" and proceeded down the train. we pulled in to Orpington where the train was terminating, i go to the doors to get off when i heard "excuse me sir", i looked round and the same inspector said to me he was penalty fining me! I asked him why seeing as he already checked my ticket and he replied with... "I thought you would of been getting off at Petts Wood" (the station about 1/2 a mile before Orpington). i said no, why does it matter, and he said, Orpington is in zone 6 and you don't have a valid ticket to alight here. i was shocked as i didnt realise Orpington was in 6, as all my other local stations are in 5. i apologised and said i didnt know, but he still gave me a fine, this was at 23:30pm, a rare thing to see any staff at this time! i offered to pay the short distance between Petts Wood and Orpington which is only 90p, but he still wasn't having it.

I'm annoyed about the fact that i wasnt aware that Orpington is the only station on the line in zone 6 and the fact it's only 1 stop out of zone 5. also how he checked my ticket previously and didnt even ask where i was going. and also i apologised and offered to buy a ticket, and he stilled fined me so late at night for such a short distance and an honest mistake.

chuxn2005 · Post by **chuxn2005** » Fri Jun 16, 2006 5:07 pm

Probably in a Bad mood because they made him work late nights!

JSReeves86 · Post by **JSReeves86** » Fri Jun 16, 2006 5:53 pm

i dont mean to sound mean or anything but he was only doing his job. Also ignorance is no excuse if you do not travel to that station regularly which from the sounds of it you dont, you should have checked your ticket was valid, as im sure it would have not allowed you to pass through the barriers ( i assume there are some at Orpington never got off there). Having traveled between Orpington and Petts Wood many times i do know how short a distance it is. but trouble is if they make an exception for you they have to make an exception for everyone. which is definatly not fare.

JR

southcoasttrains · Post by **southcoasttrains** » Fri Jun 16, 2006 6:59 pm

Revenue Protection Officers are supposed to help you out.

They have a set target each month on how many fines they give out.

(oops insider information).

You do have a right to appeal to the address on the Penalty Fares form you were given, I think its a Portsmouth address. Quote the serial number on the form and the Inspectors ID number which is on the form itself.

Most London RPO's are very strict and are not always employed from SET or Southern. Southern use a company called Meteor to do Penalty fares in the London Area.

alexnick · Post by **alexnick** » Fri Jun 16, 2006 7:09 pm

I think the thing that's unfair is that major destinations like Orpington are put just over fare zone boundaries. I'm sure this is done as a money-making ploy. It doesn't strike me as particularly fair on passengers.

Nick

southcoasttrains · Post by **southcoasttrains** » Fri Jun 16, 2006 9:40 pm

It is fair, if you look at the travelcard map you'll see that some stations are in 2 different zones. The Travelcard zone is based inside the M25 area.

mattvince · Post by **mattvince** » Fri Jun 16, 2006 10:47 pm

alexnick wrote:I think the thing that's unfair is that major destinations like Orpington are put just over fare zone boundaries. I'm sure this is done as a money-making ploy. It doesn't strike me as particularly fair on passengers.

Economics 101. If it is such a major destination, and therefore has a significantly greater number of passengers, shouldn't the price increase if capacity is both fixed and scarce? And of the money - someone has to pay the staff's wages, buy and fix the trains, and fix the track - should that be the user of the service or the population as a whole? If 'fairness' was to be applied equally, then should Thurso be in Zone 1?!

Elojikal · Post by **Elojikal** » Fri Jun 16, 2006 11:05 pm

It does seem petty considering, but then a lot of the revenue protection nazis are like that these days.

ruddson · Post by **ruddson** » Sat Jun 17, 2006 8:35 am

Had the ticket inspector asked where he was going (which he should have done) no penalty fare would have been issued, as the problem would have been pointed out then.What the inspector actually did was definitely not fare.

ForburyLion · Post by **ForburyLion** » Sat Jun 17, 2006 11:56 am

I have had similar issues with regards to travelling from Reading to Langley.... It's 2 miles along the line from Slough, Yet a return to Langley was almost double that of a return to Slough.

I decided to either walk or buy a return from Slough to Langley instead, although the lack of ticket machine on the platform at Slough and the lack of barriers at Langley mean't I didn't need to.

danielw2599 · Post by **danielw2599** » Sat Jun 17, 2006 1:07 pm

Surly its upto the ticket holder to know when, where and at what times the ticket is valid? so why should the ticket inspector ask where you are going?

The ticket inspector was just doing his job.

yorkie · Post by **yorkie** » Sun Jun 18, 2006 12:57 pm

To be honest, yes it is fair.

I don't expect to be asked where i am going by ticket inspectors, and you could have asked if your ticket was valid if in doubt.

Orpington is a long way out, and as you are a local I am surprised you didn't at least have some doubt in your mind that it may not be in Zone 5?

In fact, I think the inspector did a good job remembering what ticket you had, and even better that it was on a train at 23:19 which is exactly the sort of time they are needed most, as late night trains are most likely to be affected by crime, having staff on trains deters them.

orange24 · Post by **orange24** » Sun Jun 18, 2006 11:17 pm

Orpington is not a long way out of zone 5, and all other local stations (sidcup, petts wood, bromley, chislehurst) are in zone 5, therefore i didnt have any doubt or incling it would be in zone six. i pay alot for that monthly ticket and seeing as it was so late, i think it was petty. as for remembering my ticket, it wasn't hard as i was the only other person on the train apart from a gang of youths, who ran out of orpington station the minute "can i see your ticket" was mentioned, did they do anything about it? no, they just carried on filling in my form. as for them being a deterrant, it didnt work because when the RIO's wern't in the carriage, the youths were vandalising and hurling abuse anyway. i always buy tickets when traveling apart from this once when i genuinly wasnt aware, i apologised and offered to pay the difference, it's always us honest mugs that get caught out for money making schemes, and quite rightly said, if he asked where i was going, this wouldn't of happened, but it seems to me he was waiting to catch me out, rather than sorting those youths out!

danielw2599 · Post by **danielw2599** » Mon Jun 19, 2006 1:21 pm

Its not the RIOs job to ask you where you are going, its your responsability to know when and where the ticket is valid (As I said before).

As for being "caught out for money making schemes", you were in the wrong zone (whether you were aware or not doesn't matter) for the ticket you had and were duly fined in accordance with railway rules.

ruddson · Post by **ruddson** » Mon Jun 19, 2006 2:09 pm

danielw2599 wrote:Its not the RIOs job to ask you where you are going, its your responsability to know when and where the ticket is valid (As I said before).

Well it SHOULD be the inspectors job to do this. Your attitude of it being your own responsibility is hardly a friendly one. Suppose you were a tourist in the area and were unaware of the situation regarding zones etc? What impression would you get if you got a penalty fare because you made an honest mistake? Instead of swindling money out of regular, law abiding passengers, why don't they sort out the vandals that we so often hear about on the railways?

Its not hard to ask someone where they are going while checking a travelcard, and in my opinion, this should be a standard regulation for ticket inspectors, at least so the TOC's don't appear to be money swindlers by the public.